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  1. #71
    Rudeofus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MDR View Post
    Please ignore my ignorance about Kodaks US marketing but in Germany and Austria their pro products aren't really promoted all that much especially their LF products.
    As Mark Barendt already mentioned, (successful) marketing has changed in the last 10 years. I wouldn't know of any marketing campaigns in photographic magazines because I don't read any of them. I did, however, notice the enthusiasm so many spread in all kinds of forum I cared about. Some may call it viral marketing, chances are there also was some astroturfing involved, we'll never know. It worked with me, though. Although Fuji is mostly absent from US and European forums, their introduction of Provia 400X was quite a success story. Again, I wouldn't even know about this great film if it wasn't for enthusiastic reports here on APUG.
    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Don't know how big the writing on the wall has to be to catch people's attention aside from the order shortfalls about LF's prospects.
    Since LF cameras can be self made by skilled hobbyists I would even go as far as predicting that LF is going to be the last analog format around should that technology ever dwindle down into obscurity. Few to no people will be able to fix my RZ67, much less my EOS 3 in 30 years, but there will still be lots of people who can fold a bellows, adapt a lens, grind some glass and make a film holder out of wood.

    CGW, you were very upset when I parodied your constant "Analog is dying" postings but you really begin to sound like a single tune band by now. Nobody would have considered Cassandra prophetic had she announced the downfall of Troy as long as you have announced the imminent demise of slide film, LF photography, Kodak, and analog photography in general.
    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Amateur/hobbyist demand isn't close now to what pro demand was for any film material a decade ago. Amateurs could get decent E6 service back then simply because so many pros shot transparency.
    So what? The pro transition to D was completed many years ago yet LF film stock is still offered. I would be very surprised if LF film sales showed a strong decline during the last 3 years. And since you bring up E6 *again*: spend half the effort you put into "slide film is dying" postings into the learning of E6 home processing and you'll never look back at E6 labs anymore.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  2. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by MDR View Post
    h.v. I am talking digital archiving as a whole btw the more powerful a harddrive is the more likely it is to fail. Facebook and Co is not even ten years old and the content of the profiles constantly changes (constantly rewritten). Germany has a huge Archive for it's digital documents and guess what they save it on microfilm. The best long term digital storage devise is the rosetta stone that nobody uses because nobody can afford it, the second best is magnetic tape (max 30 years that's not long term for an archivist) never believe the propaganda from the digital companies. The best affordable storage devise is Film yes good old Film nothing beats it for economy and and long term stability (under the right conditions). Germany and other countries store it in old mines under ideal conditions and expect it to survive the next 200 - 500 years (that's long term). This market is also unfortunately for Kodak pretty much in Agfa's and Fuji's hand.

    Dominik
    Look, I don't really want to much further with this as this is getting to be too much of digital vs. film. All I wanted to say was that the world is different now, and 90% of people (in developed nations, anyways) seem to be rather content with digital file sharing and archiving, with little being printed.

    I agree that film is a great archival format that has been proven to last over a century if properly maintained. Not to mention, in 100 years, a film negative can be copied again so that worries of the negative fading are rendered moot.

    But what I am saying is most people have moved on from that. Digital archiving is not to the level of film archiving, but it isn't half bad if you remove your hard film bias and it's clearly working for most people. How is a hard drive that is powerful enough to withstand time and some environmental conditions more likely to fail with time and environmental conditions? That doesn't make sense.

    You are right, Facebook isn't very old. But neither was film in the 19th century, and look how far it's gotten! Facebook may bite the dust, but there will always be another company to take its place (like how Facebook was there when Myspace tanked in popularity). People's treasured memories don't just disappear from Facebook due to a hard drive at Facebook failing (and like I said, with cloud and solid state HD, this is less of a worry). The only way they would disappear is if Facebook ceased to exist, but there would likely be sufficient notice and an alternative website.

    Anyways, I'm done with this conversation. I've made my point, and if you disagree, that's fine, no point clogging a Kodak thread with any digital vs. film.

  3. #73
    MDR
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    H.v. okay let's agree to disagree and end this discussion. I for one hope that Kodak as company will survive the next century as a film based company and that we can use their products well into the 22nd century.

    Dominik

  4. #74
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rudeofus View Post
    As Mark Barendt already mentioned, (successful) marketing has changed in the last 10 years. I wouldn't know of any marketing campaigns in photographic magazines because I don't read any of them. I did, however, notice the enthusiasm so many spread in all kinds of forum I cared about. Some may call it viral marketing, chances are there also was some astroturfing involved, we'll never know. It worked with me, though. Although Fuji is mostly absent from US and European forums, their introduction of Provia 400X was quite a success story. Again, I wouldn't even know about this great film if it wasn't for enthusiastic reports here on APUG.

    Since LF cameras can be self made by skilled hobbyists I would even go as far as predicting that LF is going to be the last analog format around should that technology ever dwindle down into obscurity. Few to no people will be able to fix my RZ67, much less my EOS 3 in 30 years, but there will still be lots of people who can fold a bellows, adapt a lens, grind some glass and make a film holder out of wood.

    CGW, you were very upset when I parodied your constant "Analog is dying" postings but you really begin to sound like a single tune band by now. Nobody would have considered Cassandra prophetic had she announced the downfall of Troy as long as you have announced the imminent demise of slide film, LF photography, Kodak, and analog photography in general.

    So what? The pro transition to D was completed many years ago yet LF film stock is still offered. I would be very surprised if LF film sales showed a strong decline during the last 3 years. And since you bring up E6 *again*: spend half the effort you put into "slide film is dying" postings into the learning of E6 home processing and you'll never look back at E6 labs anymore.
    There are practical limits to the survivalist approach to film use, the most obvious being chemistry for small batch E6 and possibly C-41 in the not too distant future. B&W still has simplicity going for it. Nothing in the current situation pleases me at all but outright denial of reality is troubling and a bit misleading.

  5. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    So there will be no slower speed bulk Kodak 35mm B & W film available regularly any more (both T-Max and Plus-X gone) .
    I don't know if it would be an acceptable substitute, but I have started using Eastman Double X, which is a black and white movie film rated at ISO 250 for daylight. You have to buy 400 ft @ ca. $140 and spool it onto a core for your bulk loader, but it's not too much trouble. I like the way the film looks. I haven't used Plus X or TMax 100 for years. Double X looks more like Tri X from the 70s as I remember it. It's nowhere near as fine grained as TMax 100. There's a web page with development times: http://www.project-double-x.org/about.html. If you're willing to buy 400 ft, rather than a short end, just order direct from Kodak. It'll be interesting to see how much longer they manufacture this.

    Here's an example:


    Untitled by AmSteinsgraben, on Flickr

  6. #76
    MDR
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    CGW don't be so pessistimist Mustafa will ressurect Autochrome, or we can use three shot cameras with handcoated plates to get color photographs
    You may have some points regarding color photography but it seems that Kodak recently presented a new vision 3 Film and is planning to bring out a few more next year. But your right playing Ossie the Ostrich isn't the best way to react to the reduction of film companies and products. Learning about making Film at home (survivalist approach) can be a solution and if we're luck some enterprising cabinet/camera maker like Ray Morgenweck will built a three shot camera for the few remaining color enthusiasts.

    Dominik

  7. #77
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	nickcage.jpeg 
Views:	56 
Size:	45.1 KB 
ID:	43194
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

  8. #78
    MDR
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    Greg can you explain the picture's meaning to me it looks funny but I don't know what it means. Liked the photos on your website btw.

    thank you

    Dominik

  9. #79
    Greg Davis's Avatar
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    It is an internet meme with the sole purpose of interrupting pointless arguments. It was not directed at you personally, just the tone of the thread in general.

    Thanks for the compliments.
    www.gregorytdavis.com

    Did millions of people suddenly disappear? This may have an answer.

    "No one knows that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Matthew 24:36

  10. #80

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    Darn, not a good start to the week for the big Yellow:

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/marketne...ort-suit-news/

    Trading at around 70¢...
    "I'm the freak that shoots film. God bless the freaks!" ~ Mainecoonmaniac ~

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