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  1. #21
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    I'd be interested but it depends whether I can get a new darkroom up & running quickly or borrow one - not so easy as I mainly shoot LF.

    Ian

  2. #22
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Personally I'd hate to see the BPX tribalized by splitting it up regionally. So often regional differences between cultures just melt away when people are in one-to-one contact with each other at any level.

    It's a lesson I learned very early while working at Disneyland during my undergraduate college days. One learns very quickly when dealing directly with someone from halfway around the world that it's just another person not so different from you.

    When you send a BPX print to someone, also write them a nice long letter. Talk about your experiences. Ask them about theirs. Respond back to them about the print they sent you. Use photography as an excuse to get to know them. Make a friend. Were it not for the BPX exercise you would never have known they existed at all.

    It's not always such a good idea to surround yourself with only those who look, act, and think exactly like you do.

    That's the real value I see in an international BPX. And well worth the penalty of a little extra bubble wrap and additional postage.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  3. #23

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    Very well said, Ken! I agree with this completely!
    | website | ipernity thing |

  4. #24
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    I agree with Ken, in the past BPX I was part of, there was simply a mention that we should notate in the signup if we would PREFER to keep it within our country/area if we couldn't afford overseas shipping, this seemed to work just fine. Those who were ok with shipping worldwide would, and those who would prefer not to could ship CONUS or if they lived in Europe or whatever could ship there, and if there were an oddball, someone would have to pick up the slack but it could at least give the preferred "local" shipping first priority.

    So, I say keep it as usual.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  5. #25
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Why is there such hostility from US members for a European BPX ?

    Last time there was an issue like this the majority of UK APUG members just quietly left to set up their own Forum and only a few post occasionally now.

    Europe has a deep rich, extremely varied photographic culture. APUG isn't a US based website it's led by an ex-pat US guy settled in New Zealand. If we in Europe want our way of doing things then just back off and realise we don't always want to be US led, or rather misled.

    Ian

  6. #26
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    I think instead you may be misreading.

    It's not hostility by US members to the idea of a European BPX. It's just that some of us APUG members* really do enjoy interacting with members from other countries, and would like to continue with that current BPX format.

    If you honestly feel that your interests would be better served by withdrawing from the APUG international BPX exchange and forming a brand new one that caters only to those with interests more similar to your own, I would encourage you to do so.

    No one is trying to mislead you anywhere.



    Ken

    * 'andreios' is from Prague, Bert 'The Toad Men', who so enjoyed my print, is from The Netherlands, most of my own submissions have gone to members outside of the USA...
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  7. #27
    TheToadMen's Avatar
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    Hi Ken,
    You're right about that.
    But in Europe no country is as you say "who look, act, and think exactly like you do".
    Heck, the majority in the UK still think they're outside Europe (and sometimes I wonder if they are right about that too ...) and Turkey is still not sure if they want to be part of Europe or the Middle East Region.
    I think that is one of the differences between Europe and the USA. Everything is a lot smaller over here in Europe, still everyone is much further away: cultural, language, style, arts, literature, music, looks, food, ... We Europeans don't travel as much as you CONUS people do (our mistake, I know).

    So, in fact a European BPX would be a great opportunity for us "Europeans" to get to know each other better. No melting of cultures over here in Europe. I think that's a prerogative of the US society, something we apparently don't (want to) know?? Again: our mistake (up to some extend).
    The US is like "one nation", Europe is but a bunch of countries that happen to be in the same continent. We don't even know where Europe ends. (Did you know that even Russia is a partial in Europe?)

    So the "risk" you mention would be more on your side of the ocean, I'm guessing.
    But yes, I'm in favor of a worldwide BPX also - right next to a EBPX. I don't want a EBPX if it would drain the worldwide BPX, but somehow I don't think that will happen. There are many more participants in the US than in Europe. And a EBPX might encourage European APUG members to start exchanging too - even join the worldwide BPX in due time?

    And I'll join both.
    Bert from Holland

    (Edit: I hope I didn't offend anyone. If I did I apologize upfront: it was unintended)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    Personally I'd hate to see the BPX tribalized by splitting it up regionally. So often regional differences between cultures just melt away when people are in one-to-one contact with each other at any level.
    (...)
    It's not always such a good idea to surround yourself with only those who look, act, and think exactly like you do.
    That's the real value I see in an international BPX. And well worth the penalty of a little extra bubble wrap and additional postage.
    Ken
    Last edited by TheToadMen; 12-09-2013 at 04:59 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Have fun and catch that light beam!"
    Bert from Holland
    my blog: http://thetoadmen.blogspot.nl
    my Linkedin pinhole group: http://tinyurl.com/pinholegroup


    * I'm an analogue enthusiast, trying not to fall into the digital abyss.
    * My favorite cameras: Hasselblad SWC, Leica SL, Leica M7, Russian FKD 18x24, Bronica SQ-B and RF645, Rolleiflex T2, Nikon F4s, Agfa Clack and my pinhole cameras

  8. #28
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Well then, perhaps I am the one who is misreading.

    If those in Europe (and the UK, if they don't want to be thought of as part of Europe either) hold such antagonist feelings toward Americans that they are telling us to "back off" because we enjoy interacting with them via the BPX, and that they want their own print exchange without us in it because we're somehow misleading them in some way, then maybe this whole print exchange idea is not really the friendly international exercise that I thought it was...

    I think maybe it might be time for me to take a break from it all.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  9. #29
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the entire impetus for having separate exchanges rooted in higher shipping costs?
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  10. #30
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the entire impetus for having separate exchanges rooted in higher shipping costs?
    Yes that was my understanding as well.

    Which is why I mentioned that this past one, we had the option to specify if we could not afford the overseas shipping costs, but if we COULD afford them, then we might get an international exchange.

    This is a worldwide exchange, isn't that the point?

    Why should we separate?
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

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