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  1. #41

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    ahhh.
    thank you Steve.
    "There are a great many things I am in doubt about at the moment, and I should consider myself favoured if you would kindly enlighten me. Signed, Doubtful, off to Canada." (BJP 1914).

    Regards
    Bill

  2. #42
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheToadMen View Post
    If I made this impression I apologize sincerely!!
    No, no. Not you, Bert. The others. Certainly no need for you to apologize.

    When I said earlier that people of different cultures are often surprisingly similar in many ways, that included bad ways as well as good ways. All societies and cultures have examples of people who are unreasonable, prejudiced, self-righteous, mean, or are just really, really unhappy individuals. Can't be avoided. It's natural variability in action. I think we may be seeing examples of that last instance here.

    Another lesson I've learned when dealing with people is that sometimes, no matter how hard to one tries to accommodate these individuals, nothing one does is going to make a difference. They're not happy. They're not going to be happy. They're not going to allow you to try to make them happy. And that's just the way it is.

    Sometimes it's nothing you've said or done, it's merely your presence alone that is antagonizing to them. In these cases the thing to do is to simply smile, wish them the best, then quietly step around them and keep moving forward along with everyone else. You can rest assured that before you, it was someone else that was infuriating them. And after you it will be someone new making them angry yet again.

    All you can do is try your best, then quietly walk away to keep from making things worse.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  3. #43
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    I have a simple suggestion, it may or may not even work, but what if we simply change the name so that it's more clear that this is a universal exchange?

    Perhaps calling it the "worldwide print exchange"

    And making it very clear in the beginning, that those who wish to only receive and or send prints within their country for shipping or other reasons, should indicate so and their sign up.

    Then the Europeans that want to only be in Europe and ship in Europe can do so, and the Americans can do the same, and those that want to exchange worldwide and can afford it and have no issue with it can do so?

    As far as Mustafa, PLEASE I ask you, just stop calling the nude images "sluts" and other derogatory words? It is unkind and inappropriate. It may be acceptable where you are to use such words, but it is not here on an international forum, it is rude, and unwelcoming, and I've tried and tried to respect you, but it's going too far. Please refrain from using such language. Thank you.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  4. #44
    TheToadMen's Avatar
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    If we'd change the name, make it a "worldwide BPX". The "blind" part of the exchange is what makes it so interesting.

    I wouldn't allow too much shipping restrictions in the WBPX, because it's worldwide and it could become unmanageable (is that even a proper english word?). The extra shipping costs are relatively low when you take all the other costs into account.

    One or two "local senders" is doable but I wouldn't advertise it. You know what you sign up for in the WBPX and there are already some additional more local exchanges.

    Heck, I'll even ship to Belgium.
    "Have fun and catch that light beam!"
    Bert from Holland
    my blog: http://thetoadmen.blogspot.nl
    my Linkedin pinhole group: http://tinyurl.com/pinholegroup


    * I'm an analogue enthusiast, trying not to fall into the digital abyss.
    * My favorite cameras: Hasselblad SWC, Leica SL, Leica M7, Russian FKD 18x24, Bronica SQ-B and RF645, Rolleiflex T2, Nikon F4s, Agfa Clack and my pinhole cameras

  5. #45
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheToadMen View Post
    If we'd change the name, make it a "worldwide BPX". The "blind" part of the exchange is what makes it so interesting.

    I wouldn't allow too much shipping restrictions in the WBPX, because it's worldwide and it could become unmanageable (is that even a proper english word?). The extra shipping costs are relatively low when you take all the other costs into account.

    One or two "local senders" is doable but I wouldn't advertise it. You know what you sign up for in the WBPX and there are already some additional more local exchanges.

    Heck, I'll even ship to Belgium.
    Well the major issue here from what I'm gathering from the European side, is that the many Europeans want to exchange with each other only, rather than exchanging with other continents, so that's why I suggested offering it as a specific option, that way it will attract people that only want to exchange within Europe and be inclusive of that sect, while still maintaining one singular pool of participants?

    I think the blind part kind of also is confusing for some, and because of that might turn away some.

    I know it sounds goofy, but ... "Worldwide Surprise Print Exchange" or better yet! "Worldwide Mystery Print Exchange" that sounds more interesting.. OH a MYSTERY! I wonder what that's about, I'll go check out that print exchange because it caught my eye...

    I know it's sounds so simple, but sometimes the title really can catch your eye and make you check something out you normally would skip over.

    I know when I first joined I skipped over the blind print exchange because I didn't really understand it, and it didn't sound very interesting... It was only later when someone pointed out to me that I actually read through the description and then got interested.

    By the way you did use the right word, unmanageable that's correct.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  6. #46
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Well the major issue here from what I'm gathering from the European side, is that the many Europeans want to exchange with each other only, rather than exchanging with other continents, so that's why I suggested offering it as a specific option, that way it will attract people that only want to exchange within Europe and be inclusive of that sect, while still maintaining one singular pool of participants?
    I still can't understand why there can't be a simple European e print exchange without objections etc from a few, there were none made when Australian APUG members did their own.

    It's not a case of not wishing to exchange with other continents at all, rather a need for additional localised exchanges (as in the Australian case). There's been regional and local APUG events for many years and many of us take part and some of us organise them. As I said before there's a risk of alienating APUG members if localised/regional events/exchanges etc are criticised all the time, few realise that APUG lost a large number of active UK members about 5 years ago. We don't want something similar happening again.

    Ian

  7. #47
    TheToadMen's Avatar
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    Hi Stone,
    As I tried to explain before, that's NOT the issue. It seems I didn't make my case very well. We Europeans do like to exchange with everyone anywhere in the world. Is was maybe more a feeling that Europeans often couldn't join since some events are limited to CONUS only (sometimes) so they were discouraged to participate. But that doesn't mean they don't want to. Look at the sign up for BPX-19. Many European members are already on the list.

    The issue I'm making - and only that - is that it could be nice to have an additional European BPX as well, like there is an "Australia & New Zealand Print Exchange". The BPX up till now has only two rounds a year so I can manage to participate in an other exchange as well. And I was wondering if any of my close neighbors could too. It could even lead up to a some regional meetings within Europe in due time and more Europeans in the BPX-20 or BPX-21 and ...

    We want to exchange continental and intercontinental. Just that simple.

    Bert from Holland
    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post
    Well the major issue here from what I'm gathering from the European side, is that the many Europeans want to exchange with each other only, rather than exchanging with other continents, ...
    "Have fun and catch that light beam!"
    Bert from Holland
    my blog: http://thetoadmen.blogspot.nl
    my Linkedin pinhole group: http://tinyurl.com/pinholegroup


    * I'm an analogue enthusiast, trying not to fall into the digital abyss.
    * My favorite cameras: Hasselblad SWC, Leica SL, Leica M7, Russian FKD 18x24, Bronica SQ-B and RF645, Rolleiflex T2, Nikon F4s, Agfa Clack and my pinhole cameras

  8. #48
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    I still can't understand why there can't be a simple European e print exchange without objections etc from a few, there were none made when Australian APUG members did their own.

    It's not a case of not wishing to exchange with other continents at all, rather a need for additional localised exchanges (as in the Australian case). There's been regional and local APUG events for many years and many of us take part and some of us organise them. As I said before there's a risk of alienating APUG members if localised/regional events/exchanges etc are criticised all the time, few realise that APUG lost a large number of active UK members about 5 years ago. We don't want something similar happening again.

    Ian
    Ian, I wouldn't care if the European members wanted to have their own, I think that's fine in itself, I just feel that if there is a European only exchange, that Worldwide exchange would suffer a huge loss in participants who could only do one exchange but not both.

    Also as a side note, this is the ONLY exchange that I personally can participate in, because all the others seem to require wet printing which I don't (yet) do.

    So I would be sad to see even less participants because they split off to do a more local one.

    Ultimately it doesn't matter what I think. If you want to do something on your own, just do it, I just think the current exchange would suffer a loss of many European participants.
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #49
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StoneNYC View Post

    Also as a side note, this is the ONLY exchange that I personally can participate in, because all the others seem to require wet printing which I don't (yet) do.
    Personally I'm not interested in non analog print exchanges it goes against the whole ethos of APUG, I hadn't realised they existed here.

    Ian

  10. #50
    StoneNYC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    Personally I'm not interested in non analog print exchanges it goes against the whole ethos of APUG, I hadn't realised they existed here.

    Ian
    Well the BPX just allows some leniency for people like me who can't print Cibichrome prints because it doesn't exist, so they allow you to scan the transparency and send it to a printer to be light-jet printed, it's still a chemical print, but has hybrid workflow.

    If that's not acceptable to you, I guess no European BPX needs to exist and the problem is solved
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

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