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  1. #11

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    Ray, there are certainly a lot of different ways to go panoramic, aren't there! From things you have said I gather that the horizontal field of view is a key factor in your decision, perhaps even more so than the specific aspect ratio(?). Are you in the mode of trying to "go as wide as possible", or did you have a certain angular span in mind that you were wanting to capture? If you aren't sure, it might be worthwhile to take some time to think about the type of scenes you imagine photographing and see if you can imagine just how wide the horizontal field of view needs to be - literally, what horizontal angle of an actual scene you think you will typically want to span. If you don't have an existing camera system with which to compare, there are ways to measure angles in a scene using a protractor, by cutting out templates and holding them a certain distance from the eye, etc. In any event, if you can better define the horizontal coverage you think you need, then it is a simple matter to calculate what you will actually get using a specific camera/lens/film format combination. This exercise may also tell you whether a single focal length will work for you or if you need an interchangeable lens system to get different fields of view.
    Last edited by Denverdad; 02-23-2014 at 05:36 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #12
    Regular Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayonline_nz View Post
    It is difficult doing city overseas travel with a large format .... It would also be preferrable to have something to visualise and not stitch frames up. As the Fuji or Linhof 612 or 617 might be too bulky for city overseas travelling, I thought about the Xpan with its wider lens and how does that compare to a 6x7 or 6x9 rangefinder and just visualing mask out of the frame so using a 6x7 or a 6x9 with its wider lens option (such as a Fuji 6x9 with that 40mm I think) or out of interest the Mamiya 7 with its wide lens but it's probably on the too expensive boat for me. It is not in actual terms but generally 24x36mm frame, so 1:2 ratio is like 72mm wide. So a 6x7 or 6x9 can that provide something similar? So you crop the top and/or bottom so you end up a 24mm height. So you are using a 6x7 or 6x9 as a 35mm panoramic camera at a 1:2 ratio. Would a real pano camera at the 1:2 ratio still provide a lens wider left to right than this make shift option? Just want to get an idea as I live in little New Zealand they don't even have these in store nor second hand so it's basically about getting it on their local auctions or overseas auctions. But at the moment I am just pondering this idea.

    From what I seen the Fuji panoramic cameras cost at least $2,000US. I imagine the Xpan $1,000US.
    Can you use a few hand tools? Can you get on eBay?

    If you can then you can build yourself a "HolgAgon".







    Here's how I built mine...

    http://freepdfhosting.com/b316cbe2ff.pdf

    It is easy to do. Mine cost £167 for everything including the lens.

    You can see some pictures made with a HolgAgon here: https://www.flickr.com/search/?w=234...N02&q=HolgAgon

    richard

  3. #13
    David Brown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayonline_nz View Post
    What is the difference in the framing? There are 35mm XPAN. I thought .. If a 6x7 camera with a wide lens can provide a 1:2 aspect ratio as 35mm film by visualling at least masking a bit of the frame. Does a panoramic camera still provide a wider view (left to right)?
    An Xpan with a 90mm lens, and a cropped 6x7 from say, an RB67 wiht a 90mm will look the same. of course. The Xpan also has a 45mm lens, much wider. However, I have a 50mm lens for the RB67, and so get very close by simply cropping and using a slice of the negative that's 1" x 2.25'.

    On the other hand, I also use a swing-lens Horizon that takes a rotating panoramic picture covering (IIRC) 170 degrees. It is a totally different animal.
    David
    Taking pictures is easy. Making photographs is hard.

    http://www.behance.net/silverdarkroom
    http://silverdarkroom.wordpress.com

  4. #14
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    The main advantage of an Xpan over cropping from 6x7 is that an Xpan functions more like a 35mm rangefinder camera, if that's what you're accustomed to. At one time it was also desirable if you wanted to shoot Kodachrome, but that's not an issue anymore, alas.

    An advantage of cropping from 6x7 is that you have more flexibility about the format shape and where to put the horizon in your panoramic images--like having a view camera with rise/fall (or shift when you shoot vertical cropped panos).

    Best of both worlds: Mamiya 7II.

    Like David Brown, I also have a swing-lens camera (Noblex 150), which is indeed a totally different animal, as he says, but for the right scene, it's perfect.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  5. #15

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    Thanks for that DIY approach, have saved it. Are the images sharp?

    Well maybe a Fotoman if that is an option or simply use a 4x5 and crop it afterwards or use a 645 camera and stitch ...

  6. #16
    Regular Rod's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rayonline_nz View Post
    Thanks for that DIY approach, have saved it. Are the images sharp?

    Well maybe a Fotoman if that is an option or simply use a 4x5 and crop it afterwards or use a 645 camera and stitch ...
    My pleasure. The images are very sharp and so they should be with an Angulon.

    Here's a couple of samples:





    The HolgAgon is a very practical and usable camera. It is light weight too, ideal for back packing.

    RR

  7. #17

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    Dan's suggestion is a good one if you are looking to shoot "Pans" with a regular camera. You can use a regular camera and crop to the panoramic format. Your angle of view is limited to the coverage of the lens used. You can also use a "swing lens" camera which typically covers up to 140 degrees. These cameras have lens that swing on a pivot point to expose a stationary piece of film set in a curved film plane. The third type is a rotating panoramic camera that rotates on a pivot as the film moves past a slit in a continuous motion ( hopefully). These cameras can shoot over 360 degrees. The cirkut cameras were the first production cameras of this type. Globoscope, hulcher, and roundshot were some of the modern version of this type. I've shot a lot with cirkuts and roundshots and love them and images they shoot

  8. #18

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    I use a few 6x12 backs for my 4x5 and my 3-lens Xpan kit for panoramic. The lenses for the Xpan are incredible, they will really push a film like Technical Pan to the utter brink. So one of my favorite travel kits is the Xpan with the 30, 45 and 90 and my Leica M3 with a 50mm 1.4. Not much you can't do with that setup really.

    That being said, I love the aspect ratio of 6x12 and the ease of using rolls film with it and obviously, much larger negatives than those from the Xpan...

  9. #19

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    Y'know, the 35/4.5 Apo Grandagon just covers 6x12. Just. And the center filter really is needed. Not to denigrate the Xpan, but its sort of like the Alpa 12. Lovely, a joy to behold, according to users a pleasure to use but there are less expensive ways of doing what it does, and more. The 35 Apo Grandy isn't cheap -- I ended up paying a grand for mine and its center filter, bought 'em separately -- but there are quite inexpensive 6x12 roll holders and 4x5 cameras that will focus it.

  10. #20

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    The way I eventually tried out the panoramic idea was with a (freshly serviced, "better than new") Pentacon-6 and the Arsat 30mm lens with 112 degree horizontal/vertical coverage, then cropping the neg to about 25x56. Admittedly the term 'panoramic' is not tightly defined, but this seems to fit the bill. One also gets a sort of pseudo rising-front if required, by moving the part used in the crop. Another strong positive point is that the negs print using common medium-format enlargers of course. There is some barrel distortion, as the Arsat is not a perfect rectilinear lens, so that must be considered when framing up your subject(s).

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