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  1. #11
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by c.d.ewen View Post
    Jim: You've got a 99 gear? Geez. Just did the calc - 3.156" diameter. The camera's gonna fall off the back of the tripod.

    The "last word" on the gears is going to be the squares test.

    Charley
    Dangit. I think my 99 is a 66 That actually makes sense because a convertible that had an 11 and a 14 would also have a 7 inch, not a 6.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Crabtree View Post
    I should have a modified version of the BASIC program set up for a #6 Outfit. I can run it later if you know the exact focal length of the lens. Or I can figure what focal length you lenses will work with.

    I would just need to start up an older computer I have it running on when I get back from a class in a few hours.
    Thanks very much Mark, but I think I've got it figured out. Sort of.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

  3. #13

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    If the shanks were too short then the gears were probably for another size or model cirkut. I'm unusually busy right now but will try to send the charts that I have soon. A 99 gear is unusual for a 6 outfit. only cirkut I 've heard of with a 99 is a 16. The outfit back on the old fan cameras had a different position than the governor models. That might be why some of the gears are off as well.
    What are you doing for film?

  4. #14
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    Thanks Jamie. I appreciate the time.

    The 99 gear turned out to be a 66 :embarrassed:

    For film I have a freezer full of 5" Aerial Recon film. Panatomic and Plus X. So the 6 will be a 5 in use. I'll just wind it on the spool in the dark and tape the film right on the drum. Emulsion out. I use the aerial recon film in my 10 also. I'm envisioning 30" and less for the 6. Easy to process etc. Getting lazy in my old age.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimgalli View Post
    Thanks very much Mark, but I think I've got it figured out. Sort of.
    Let me know if you do need any of the dimensions for #6 Outfit for the program; I should have them from mine.

  6. #16
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Crabtree View Post
    Let me know if you do need any of the dimensions for #6 Outfit for the program; I should have them from mine.
    Yes Please! And how you got them if possible. The more I understand, the better. For now, the default in the program was an 8 outfit which I think was pretty similar. I'm getting back numbers that seem consistent with a Bausch and Lomb Protar VII early version which was 11" and 14" and 7". I may be lucky. Those will be the first lenses I'll try.

    Jim
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

  7. #17

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    Mark - are you still doing much with cirkut cameras? I've been wondering who is out there still working with them

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    Not doing near as much anymore. We still shoot a few jobs. Doug Chadwick is still shooting jobs with Cirkut, but moving quickly toward digital for that.

    I don't know if you ever spoke to Gordon Roth in NJ. He is an old Cirkut shooter who is fascinating to talk to. Worked with Harold Lewis (MA) a lot. Built an optical bench to measure focal length for Cirkuts, and machined his own gears. I spoke to him for over an hour and a half today. He's not shooting any more, but was still experimenting and testing stuff last year. I did some gear calculations for him. We almost got him to shoot a job a year or two ago. Gordon worked in the studio at Kodak back in the 50's, and worked in O. Winston Link's studio for a while too, though for someone else who shared the studio with Link. He has a #16 he'd like to sell.

    I don't know how much Ron Klein is shooting Cirkut, but always has some interesting project up his sleeve. Often still film, or wet plate.

    I keep my #10's working. I think about selling my nice #6 Camera (not Outfit), though that seems like the most sensible Cirkut to shoot for fun.

  9. #19

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    From the gear program as I ran it for my governor #6 Outfit:

    G1=4.5 'LARGE GEAR RADIUS'
    g4 = 32 'GEAR PITCH'
    D3=3.05 'FILM DRUM DIAMETER
    K1=2.224 'DISTANCE SM GEAR TO LENS AXIS'
    Y1=1.81 'DISTANCE FROM SM GEAR TO FILM PLANE'
    w2 = 0.307 'SLIT WIDTH'

    Bob Lang gave me numbers back in 2001 that someone else had measured on a fan #6 Outfit:
    Large gear radius 4.5"
    Diameter of film drum 3.0239"
    Perpendicular distance from center of small gear to lens axis .685"
    Perpendicular distance from center of small gear to film plane 2.168"
    Slit Width .3125"
    Gear Pitch 32

    Many of these numbers have more decimal places than necessary, or realistically accurate, but that's what I have. Perhaps some are an artifact of conversion from metric.

    It appears that I do have the program running on my current computer. Mine is a modified version of Bob Lang's.

  10. #20
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    Progress report;

    I got the Bob Lang, Clayton Tume, Bruce Christie gear program running and figured out how to use it. Took the measurements and filled in the blanks and ran dozens of scenarios to match the 5 gears I was blessed with to possible lenses.

    I ended up with some possibilities and went on a trial run today.

    All of my gears were on shafts 3/8" too short, so I machined new shafts. Thanks to Ron Klein for sharing his knowledge about the gears and other things. I wouldn't have guessed that the gears are just soft soldered on and come right out in a punch press. With longer shafts made I just had to solder them up again.

    Today I chose an 8 3/4" Wollensak Series 1A lens because the gear program seemed to indicate it would work well with my 51 tooth gear. I checked film plane to ground glass distance and they seemed identical. So I used the 'outfit' 5X7 back for focus and then changed to the Cirkut back

    The machine ran flawlessly. Really a sweet runner and the exposures are pretty good.

    For the sake of speed and ease in this testing mode, I chopped the 38" neg up into 12" sections and developed the sections in the 3004 tank on the JOBO. But I don't have anything to show off because the curl in those 5X12 sections is so nasty it's just about impossible to scan them! Plus my image sucked, but hey, I'll get better as I go.

    Sharpness is a concern. That particular lens is tack sharp in normal use on 4X5. It's a stunner, but on the Cirkut, not so much. Squareness looks good. Things are neither stretched or compressed. I focused for infinity because that's where it should be for a 51 tooth gear. Then I hoped for nearer things to be in focus because of lens being stopped down to f45. But the farther things are away, the less sharp they are, and near things that I wouldn't expect to be as sharp are sharper.

    The image slit concerns me. .344 seems awful wide. 11/32nd inch wide slit.


    partial image done today


    100 percent crop to see sharpness
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

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