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  1. #21
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Mutmansky
    ... I hope that this lens is the start of a whole line. I could certainly see a 210 and 300mm lenses fitting in nicely, and there are many, many people out there that would be able to take advantage of lenses in these focal lengths, from 8x10 on up...
    I'm a happy owner of a 210mm Angulon, and would be very happy if someone were to make a 300mm version. I wouldn't even mind if they dropped the aperture to f:9 to make it fit in a (standard) shutter.

    On the other hand: With contact prints being the end result, even a 300mm WA Aplanat would work great for 12x16". At least my 150mm covers 9.5x12"...
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Mutmansky
    Sandy,

    I hope that this lens is the start of a whole line. I could certainly see a 210 and 300mm lenses fitting in nicely, and there are many, many people out there that would be able to take advantage of lenses in these focal lengths, from 8x10 on up.

    Frankly, I'm surprised a Chinese manufacturer has not jumped on board with a reintroduction of WA Dagor designs to meet the LF/ULF market, especially considering the very high value the Zeiss WA dagors go for on ebay. Maybe someone should talk Arax into making a batch of Computars or something similar.


    ---Michael

    Michael,

    Actually, there is a person who has made contact at the engineering level with Rodenstock in an effort to get them to look at the feasibility of producing a lens similar to the Computar. Talking to Arax might be a better idea as they would probably have more incentive to produce a lens of this type.

    BTW, I sure would like to do a comparison test of the Zeiss WA Dagor and the Computar. Anyone out there willing to entrust your precious WA Dagor to me in either 8.25", 9.5", 10.75" or 12" focal length a couple of weeks to do the tests?

    Sandy

  3. #23

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    Sandy,

    The Zeiss WA dagors will cover more than the Computar, if the 150mm version is any indication. The computar will maybe hit the corners of 8x10, but the Zeiss will cover 10x12 with a little room. I can't say how the performance is for them because I haven't use them. Longer focal lenghts will probably vary in coverage.

    The Computars suffer from field curvature terribly in the outer limits of coverage, but I suspect that a slight modification to the design could correct that nicely and make a great design for ULF shooters. It's possible to have good sharpness out towards the edges with these lenses, but not at the same time as the center.

    I think Rodenstock would probably be the last company I'd be talking to about something like this. Too big. I'd be working on an eastern european or asian company that is much smaller. I used to think Cooke might be a good match, but they aren't interested unless it's a multi-kilobuck lens.

    Sure would be nice to have some options.
    www.mutmansky.com
    B&W photography in Silver, Palladium, and gum bichromate.

  4. #24

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    I was just considering my choices in the 300mm range for 11x14 since my 305 Claron does not always give me the movement I would like. My conclusion is for a quality lens in excellent to mint condition I'm looking at a subtantial investment.

    Investing in said lens isn't as cut and dry as picking the one I need in 600mm. With wide angle vintage lenses there are many variables it seems, the year it was made, the company that made the lens at that certain time period and than changed names and ellement combonations........its enough to make the pope say *&#!!!

    I've wondered aloud why they don't make an, oh lets say 300XL with loads of movement, mind you this is just a laymen babbleing to himself as I vignett another neg. I don't mind gett'n off my wallet for a piece of equiptment that I know will work and is a quality instrument, I just hate to roll the dice on a shiny antique that cost that much.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Mutmansky
    Sandy,

    The Zeiss WA dagors will cover more than the Computar, if the 150mm version is any indication. The computar will maybe hit the corners of 8x10, but the Zeiss will cover 10x12 with a little room. I can't say how the performance is for them because I haven't use them. Longer focal lenghts will probably vary in coverage.

    The Computars suffer from field curvature terribly in the outer limits of coverage, but I suspect that a slight modification to the design could correct that nicely and make a great design for ULF shooters. It's possible to have good sharpness out towards the edges with these lenses, but not at the same time as the center.

    I think Rodenstock would probably be the last company I'd be talking to about something like this. Too big. I'd be working on an eastern european or asian company that is much smaller. I used to think Cooke might be a good match, but they aren't interested unless it's a multi-kilobuck lens.

    Sure would be nice to have some options.

    Michael,

    The Zeiss 150mm f9 dagor would not cover 10x12 based on my experience with other focal lengths of this design. The 180mm covers 8x10 with movement and probably 10x12 based on the range of movements I get. I have a 75mm version that just makes 4x5 stopped down so I would assume the 150mm just covers 8x10. My 210mm covers 11x14. Maybe there is some variance between lenses and some cover more than others.

    I do agree with you and Sandy that there is a market for this design. I would suggest that if you are serious about pursuing a manufacturer, then you're best bet would be Cooke Optics. I talked with their lens designer a little over a year ago and he said they were looking at the possibility of reintroducing modern designs of their wide angle series VIIb. He told me they used modern coatings and exotic glass (lanthanum) for the new triple covertible lens. I am sure they could surpass the performance of the f9 dagors with a modern re-design of the VIIb. I can't remember their designers name but I am sure this could be brought to Barbara Lowry's attention to see if they have any interest.

    Peter

  6. #26

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    Peter,

    I have it on good authority that it'll cover 10x12. Haven't seen one myself though.

    The Zeiss f9 dagor has greater coverage than the f8 version from Goerz to my understanding.


    ---Michael
    www.mutmansky.com
    B&W photography in Silver, Palladium, and gum bichromate.

  7. #27
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    I have a Zeiss 150/9, and I can assure you it covers 10x12.

    Quote Originally Posted by roodpe
    Michael,

    The Zeiss 150mm f9 dagor would not cover 10x12 based on my experience with other focal lengths of this design. The 180mm covers 8x10 with movement and probably 10x12 based on the range of movements I get. I have a 75mm version that just makes 4x5 stopped down so I would assume the 150mm just covers 8x10. My 210mm covers 11x14. Maybe there is some variance between lenses and some cover more than others.

    I do agree with you and Sandy that there is a market for this design. I would suggest that if you are serious about pursuing a manufacturer, then you're best bet would be Cooke Optics. I talked with their lens designer a little over a year ago and he said they were looking at the possibility of reintroducing modern designs of their wide angle series VIIb. He told me they used modern coatings and exotic glass (lanthanum) for the new triple covertible lens. I am sure they could surpass the performance of the f9 dagors with a modern re-design of the VIIb. I can't remember their designers name but I am sure this could be brought to Barbara Lowry's attention to see if they have any interest.

    Peter
    I just want to feel nostalgic like I used to.


    http://www.clayharmon.net - turnip extraordinaire

  8. #28

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    Well, there's the 'good authority'... How's the holiday going Clay?


    ---Michael
    www.mutmansky.com
    B&W photography in Silver, Palladium, and gum bichromate.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Mutmansky
    Sandy,

    The Zeiss WA dagors will cover more than the Computar, if the 150mm version is any indication. The computar will maybe hit the corners of 8x10, but the Zeiss will cover 10x12 with a little room. I can't say how the performance is for them because I haven't use them. Longer focal lenghts will probably vary in coverage.

    The Computars suffer from field curvature terribly in the outer limits of coverage, but I suspect that a slight modification to the design could correct that nicely and make a great design for ULF shooters. It's possible to have good sharpness out towards the edges with these lenses, but not at the same time as the center.
    I have found that the Computar will cover about 95 degrees so the Zeiss WA Dagor must cover in excess of 100 degrees.

    The Computar does have a lot of field curvature but if you stop down the lens to f/45 or f/64 and focus about halfway between the center and far edges of the image it is possible to get very good detail across the entire circle of illumination.

    With the regular Dagor and the Angulon the image may be in focus at both the center and the corners but performance is terrible at the edges of the circle of illumination, about 85 degrees for the Dagor and 100 degrees for the Angulon. The Angulon has a larger circle of illumination but from about 90 degrees on out the performance is also very poor.

    Just wondering about performance at the far edges with the Zeiss WA Dagor? Better or same as the regular Dagors?

    Sandy
    Last edited by sanking; 07-01-2006 at 08:51 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by roodpe
    Michael,

    The Zeiss 150mm f9 dagor would not cover 10x12 based on my experience with other focal lengths of this design. The 180mm covers 8x10 with movement and probably 10x12 based on the range of movements I get. I have a 75mm version that just makes 4x5 stopped down so I would assume the 150mm just covers 8x10. My 210mm covers 11x14. Maybe there is some variance between lenses and some cover more than others.

    <SNIP>

    Peter

    Hi,
    I have a 75mm zeiss WA dagor. It covers 5x7 well enough for contact prints (I have never tried enlarging one of these images). Their must be a wide degree of variation amongst these lenses.
    Celac.

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