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  1. #11

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    [QUOTE=Ole]The Zeiss Weitwinkel-Protar F/18 is a 2+2. No triplets. So the Ross lens is probably one of those.[QUOTE]

    Dear Ole,

    Thanks. I was clearly misremembering when I thought Protars were 6-glass, 2x cemented triplet. Or is that true of the non-weitwinkel versions?

    Cheers,

    Roger

  2. #12
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    Roger, as Ole says the Ross designed wide angles were often Protars.

    For many years Ross made wide angle Protars under licence from Zeiss, and the lenses were marked as such. However during WWII the licence agreement was no longer sustainable, and the Protar name dropped, but Ross continued making the lenses for military use. I have a Air Ministry model for my 10x8 camera.

    Ian

  3. #13
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
    Thanks. I was clearly misremembering when I thought Protars were 6-glass, 2x cemented triplet. Or is that true of the non-weitwinkel versions?
    The only thing you can be certain of with a Protar is that it's a Zeiss designed fully cemented anastigmat. Anything from 2 to 4 elements in each cell, some symmetric and some not. They also made a few 3+3 lenses - the Serie IV (in Germany only, B&L's Series IV is a Wide-angle) Protar is a convertible 3-element lens, and the Doppel-Amatar which is essentially a Dagor copy (thus not a Protar, since it's not a Zeiss design).

    To find out the "real" construction of any Protar lens you either need to study one very carefully, or study the literature very carefully. As I've mentioned above, the lenses produced under license may not be the same as the ones made by Zeiss Jena!
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  4. #14

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    Dear Ian, Dear Ole,

    Thanks for the information. Lens design is one of those things I 'mug up' when I need it, hence my vagueness. I'm better on 35mm, said he defensively.

    From the look of it -- black painted brass, style of knurling, engraving, etc -- this is from the 20s or 30s. The number is 235 324.

    Cheers,

    Roger

  5. #15
    Ole
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    Another irrelevant fact: If the lens says "Series V", it's not made by Zeiss. The Zeiss ones only say "Protar F/18", no mention of Serie. Some of the WA Protars produced under license are f:16 instead of f:18. I believe the lenses to be the same, only the aperture opens up a little bit more.
    Also the Germans were a little more fond of the 3.15-4.5-6.3-9-12.5-18-25-36-50 aperture scale. F:3.16 is Stolze Nr.1, then it doubles for each stop just like the US stops...
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  6. #16
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    Lots of good answers here. Do you really love UWA (ultra wide angle) or is it WA (wide angle) you're after. One nice thing about 11X14 is that if you divide by 10 (easy) you have an equivalent in 35mm for your minds eye to to think of what the coverage will be. Thus a 270mm lens on 11X14 will have a similar aspect ration to a 27 or 28mm on a Nikon. An 8X10 Protar Serie V (183mm) will look like an 18mm on a Nikon. Pretty wide. A 9cm Hypergon even if you could afford one would look like a 9mm lens on a Nikon. That's just nuts.

    Here's a cheap wide place to start. This is an oldie of mine and the auction finishes later today. It will give you a 28mm look on a Nikon. 10 3/4" = 270mm = looks like a 27mm on a Nikon. Hope that helps.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

  7. #17

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    Schneider Wide Angle 210mm f/5.6 Super-Symmar XL Lens with Copal #3 Shutter

    I'm thinking of buying this lens for my 11x14, any thoughts

  8. #18

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    What an interesting thread! I, for years have wondered with what camera and lens did Irving Underhill use for the following photograph.

    New York 1920 Exchange Court Building 52 Broadway & Exchange Place.

    This link may get you there to see it.
    www.shorpy.com/node/1318?size=_original

    I suspect it MIGHT have been an 11x14 with a Hypergon. I don't know, DOES ANYONE HERE KNOW FOR SURE WHAT HE USED?

    I've been fascinated with Underhills work since I was a child, reading and looking at the pictures in "The Book of Knowledge".

    Oles thought about the Hypergon covering 130+ degrees is also just about the maximum angle one can obtain from a pinhole. Since I'll likely never be able to find or purchase a propeller driven Hypergon or an 11x14 camera, this thread has excited me to the point of wanting to get my 8x10 out and make some pinholes to experiment with! Hmm, bet I could make a 11x14 pinhole box camera.
    All the best,
    Sam

  9. #19
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    I don't know if Underhill used a Hypergon, but I have seen an 11x14" "skyscraper camera" designed around the Hypergon--very short bellows and front rise and fall are the only movements--kind of a 11x14" Cambo Wide. That would have worked for that shot. It looks like he's shooting from a building on the opposite corner of the street.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  10. #20

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    I have been in your position; shooting 11x14, and looking for the 'widest ' lens. I know of an old ruin that I thought needed an ultrawide lens to photograph, and spent a few years trying to find that lens. My two cents:

    You may want to reconsider the 'Ultrawide' perspective; there are numerous problems. I had the 183 Protar V, but very hard to see the edges of the image at f18. Even more problematic is compressing your bellows down to 183mm-virtually impossible. I had a custom recessed lens board made, and it still did not work. The 196 Protar IV at f12.5 worked, but just barely. I just bought a 200mm protar, but have not tried it yet. This is probably as wide as you can go; I think 200mm is approaching the practical limit.

    What I discovered is that any lens below 200mm on 11x14 was just too wide, and realistically did not form a good image or perspective-didn't look natural; very distorted. I have the 240mm Computar now, which I have found is as wide a lens as I will ever need for landscape photography.

    One other point to remember is that for any wide angle landscape photo, you will be using a great deal of back tilt, so you will need much more than just 450mm of coverage- probably need a 500mm image circle routinely.
    Enjoy.

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