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  1. #11

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    1. Would you buy a camera made from aluminum or would you only buy a wooden camera?

    Would consider either.

    2. What is more important rigidity or light weight?

    I want both, and Dick Phillips has demonstrated that that's not an unreasonable demand.

    3. How important is it to you that the camera is beautiful? Is it a tool, or a showpiece or both?

    Tool aspect is more important, though a tool that's well designed for its function will often be beautiful.

    4. What features can you live without? What features can you not live without?

    Want: lots of front rise. Modest amount of tilt and swing, doesn't matter whether it's front or rear standard. A way to focus very wide lenses without getting the bed in the picture. Anything else is nice but not essential.

    5. Would you pay twice as much for a camera that had graduated movements and detent stops?

    No.

    6. Do you use triple extension bellows often enough to add 50% to the price?

    No.

    7. Synthetic bellows are less expensive and more weather resistant than leather. Would bellows material be a deciding factor in your purchase and do you think there should be a choice?

    Synthetic is fine.

    8. Do you REALLY need rise and fall on the back? $$$$$$

    No.

  2. #12
    resummerfield's Avatar
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    1 & 2: Having had both wood and aluminum cameras, I will avoid a wood camera if possible. In the large sizes, they are just not rigid enough. Most important for me is rigidity, and a strong front standard large enough to accept larger lensboards (at least 140mm square).

    3: A well designed tool is a thing of beauty.

    4 & 8: I could live without back rise.

    5: I find graduated movements very helpful, and yes, I would pay more, but not twice as much! Graduated scales should be fairly easy to incorporate. Detent stops are not necessary. Geared movements are not necessary.

    6: Triple extension is not necessary for me. On a 7x17, I don’t need more than 36 inches, and could probably get by with 34 or so.

    7: Synthetic. I would not need a choice, but the basic bellows should be of high enough quality to last.

    Concerning the holders, S&S now makes a version compatible with the Canham style, and the only major difference that I could see between the original S&S version and the Canham style is the t-dist. So perhaps you could design the back with shims that could be changed to get the proper t-dist for the holders
    —Eric

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung View Post
    1. Would you buy a camera made from aluminum or would you only buy a wooden camera?
    I like wood.

    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung View Post
    2. What is more important rigidity or light weight?
    2 extra pounds for more rigidity would be no problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung View Post
    3. How important is it to you that the camera is beautiful? Is it a tool, or a showpiece or both?
    Working with a nice camera is better. You would not ride an ugly bike because it lighter?

    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung View Post
    4. What features can you live without? What features can you not live without?

    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung View Post
    5. Would you pay twice as much for a camera that had graduated movements and detent stops?
    No

    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung View Post
    6. Do you use triple extension bellows often enough to add 50% to the price?
    What would be the range of usable lenses on both standard and tripple extention?

    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung View Post
    7. Synthetic bellows are less expensive and more weather resistant than leather. Would bellows material be a deciding factor in your purchase and do you think there should be a choice?
    Synthetic is fine for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung View Post
    8. Do you REALLY need rise and fall on the back? $$$$$$
    Not at all.




    G

  4. #14
    jimgalli's Avatar
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    1. Would you buy a camera made from aluminum or would you only buy a wooden camera?

    Wise use of both.

    2. What is more important rigidity or light weight?

    light weight by a small margin. maybe 55:45

    3. How important is it to you that the camera is beautiful? Is it a tool, or a showpiece or both?

    Both. But I think an excellent design elegantly made is always beautiful. I think the Phillips camera and some of the Chinese wood knock-offs that used his idea are beautiful. All-thread and cabinet hinges along with other stuff I can buy at Home Depot is NEVER beautiful. It doesn't have to look like a Folmer & Schwing to be beautiful. Simple is always elegant.

    4. What features can you live without? What features can you not live without?

    One that everyone seems to forget is a lens board area large enough and strong enough to put a lens with an interesting signature on. I'd like to use a 19" Heliar on my ULF please. I'll likely get voted down on this one as big lens surfaces seem to detract from looks. 7" lens panel and some STRENGTH would be enough. The Wisner camera is a joke here. It gets nervous with a copal 3 shutter.

    5. Would you pay twice as much for a camera that had graduated movements and detent stops?

    NO

    6. Do you use triple extension bellows often enough to add 50% to the price?

    YES

    7. Synthetic bellows are less expensive and more weather resistant than leather. Would bellows material be a deciding factor in your purchase and do you think there should be a choice?

    Synthetic is fine. They should be tight enough for infrared film.

    8. Do you REALLY need rise and fall on the back? $$$$$$

    NO!
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep..to gain that which he cannot lose. Jim Elliot, 1949

    http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com

  5. #15
    Jeremy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimgalli View Post
    One that everyone seems to forget is a lens board area large enough and strong enough to put a lens with an interesting signature on. I'd like to use a 19" Heliar on my ULF please. I'll likely get voted down on this one as big lens surfaces seem to detract from looks. 7" lens panel and some STRENGTH would be enough. The Wisner camera is a joke here. It gets nervous with a copal 3 shutter.
    Here, Here!!!
    Let's see what I've got in the magic trash can for Mateo!

    blog
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  6. #16
    mammolo's Avatar
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    Barry,

    I just ordered a 14x17 and I have been playing with a 20x24, so consider me a highly motivated ULF-er!

    ----

    1. Would you buy a camera made from aluminum or would you only buy a wooden camera?

    I do not care about the material, aluminum is fine.

    2. What is more important rigidity or light weight?

    A compromise between the two.

    3. How important is it to you that the camera is beautiful? Is it a tool, or a showpiece or both?

    An ugly looking thing is not going to help _my_ creativity

    4. What features can you live without? What features can you not live without?

    I can live without geared movements, but not on a 20x24 camera. A long bellows is a must. Length depends on format of course. A 16x20 camera should have at least 1200mm bellows.

    5. Would you pay twice as much for a camera that had graduated movements and detent stops?

    Detent stops are a necessity, and I would not like to pay more for them. I will not pay twice as much for graduated movements but again I am dubious that you can come up with a truly usable 20x24 without some geared movements.

    6. Do you use triple extension bellows often enough to add 50% to the price?

    I do not think this is a clear-cut question. Triple extension of what? If you refer specifically to a 7x17 my answer is no. Larger-sized cameras need at least 1200mm of bellows. Call it triple or quadruple that's what I would need.

    7. Synthetic bellows are less expensive and more weather resistant than leather. Would bellows material be a deciding factor in your purchase and do you think there should be a choice?

    Synthetic is just fine.

    8. Do you REALLY need rise and fall on the back? $$$$$$

    No, I do not, and I believe that no matter how smart you design the movements in the back having them does compromise rigidity.


    This may not apply to a 7x17, but an issue I care about is how STRONG the front is and how TOUGH the mechanisms in the front are. Very heavy lenses will end up being used. Think an APO-Ronar 890mm, for instance. I think that most of the ULF cameras being manufactured today do not take this into the necessary consideration. Again, this may apply solely to beasts like 14x17, 12x20, 16x20 and 20x24, but you said you were considering manufacturing larger cameras as well.

    One more thing: if you could provide your customers with a solution on how to carry the camera you would certainly get some advantage over the competition that is pretty much ignoring this problem, leaving it to the creativity or desperation of the customer

    Good luck and do keep us posted on your progress!!!!!!!

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by barryjyoung View Post
    ....

    1. Would you buy a camera made from aluminum or would you only buy a wooden camera?

    2. What is more important rigidity or light weight?

    3. How important is it to you that the camera is beautiful? Is it a tool, or a showpiece or both?

    4. What features can you live without? What features can you not live without?

    5. Would you pay twice as much for a camera that had graduated movements and detent stops?

    6. Do you use triple extension bellows often enough to add 50% to the price?

    7. Synthetic bellows are less expensive and more weather resistant than leather. Would bellows material be a deciding factor in your purchase and do you think there should be a choice?

    8. Do you REALLY need rise and fall on the back? $$$$$$


    .
    Barry. I now have a 7x17 Wisner with all the bells and whistles (incl rear rise). Here are my answers to your query absed on my experiences with it.

    Good luck.

    1: Either/or.
    2. Both. (emphasis on rigidity).
    3. I wouldn't buy an "ugly" camera (nor date an "ugly" woman )
    4. Rear rise I can do without. Have to have full frontal movements (incl. shift)
    5. Not a chance.
    6. On 8x10 yes. On 7x17 no.
    7. Makes no difference to me.
    8. Nope. Not at all.

  8. #18

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    I agree with everything Daniel said above, except, I am not as particular about looks. I would however like, focusing like the phillips and a bail back like the phillips for loading holders. Rear tilt is important on 7 x 17 as you can't reach the front, so smoothness here is important to me. I like everything about the phillips except the abilty to do verticals which requires tilting the camera on its side...not something I do often...

  9. #19
    MattKing's Avatar
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    I have been reading through this thread with interest, which may seem somewhat strange, given that I don't even shoot LF, much less ULF.

    With that in mind, I do have a suggestion. My perspective flows from the fact that I am both left handed, and I have limited strength and dexterity in my right hand.

    Whatever design choices you make, try to make them in a way that doesn't penalize people who are left handed.

    If an adjustment or control is important, it should be as easy for a left handed person to use it, as it is for a right handed person.

    If possible, adjustments and controls should be usable using one hand only, and either hand at that.

    If you are preparing prototypes, you may want to have them tested by both right handed and left handed photographers

    Now if I could just convince the manufacturers of smaller cameras to follow these same suggestions...

    Matt

  10. #20
    barryjyoung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scootermm View Post
    All in all, my point of view is that these cameras, especially in ULF are tools and I use them as such. I dont take much consideration for how the camera looks or whether its pretty, I like when they work instinctively/intuitively and function flawlessly.

    Hope that helps barry.
    scootrmm:

    It helps a great deal
    Thank you very much.
    Barry Young
    Young Camera Company

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