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  1. #11
    dwross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    hi denise

    i really wish i could head out west and go to your seminar !

    john
    John,

    I really wish you could head out west, too, but I know you have obligations right now. Hopefully, if the emulsion gods smile, there will be an annual Artisan Silver Gelatin Seminar from this year forward. Maybe, some year soon, you can present!

    d

  2. #12
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    Denise;

    I am trying to teach on 2 levels or perhaps 3 in order to give a foundation, history and future to analog. Without those, we are just repeating the distant past and that is all.

    To quote myself: "However, much can be totally lost if you are not careful because the creation of a photographic system is as much an art as it is engineering and that is part of the beauty of it and part of the weakness as well." which has meaning in this context. No one person can "own" any aspect of analog photography. And this fits in the current context. There is room for everyone and every POV as I note in prior posts in that same thread. Read #42 and #44 again. I'm not the only one with that opinion.

    We are both teaching people new to many aspects of analog photography. There is no need to throw a stone in either direction or we will both end up in the wrong. We will go a lot further helping each other out instead.

    PE

  3. #13
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    Well, good grief, Ron. No stones from me. The Light Farm is dedicated to collaborative and cooperative learning and teaching (although, in truth, I can get testy about obfuscation.) You have been invited to participate many times. Mark's articles are valuable contributions. I wouldn't have posted what I did except to address as honestly as I know how the comment that there is "silence" on the subject of dry plates.

    I still don't see that you understand the influence of the repetition of the word "I" in so many of your posts about emulsions. Please consider that it might be daunting to newcomers. Also, I draw your attention, and perhaps your memory, to this thread, http://www.apug.org/forums/forum205/...n-house-3.html, particularly post #23.

    Respectfully,
    d

  4. #14
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    "They did an excellent job of brainwashing the public. Today, heirs to that Kodak philosophy, on APUG and at GEH, are still quite determined to 'own' the process."

    The above quote Denise, places you squarely on top of this issue! When you work alone, something I have seldom done, it is difficult to use "we" without appearing "regal" as that is the Imperial We! When Bill Troop and I work together on a new formulation of developers or fixers, I use "we". So, just a matter of English. After all, you use it too. You used it over 5 times in your post above. And, you seem to have gone to a lot of trouble marking my posts that apparently irritate you.

    You do excellent work and your web site is mentioned in my book FWIW.

    The fundamental problem between our approaches is that if a student asks me why something happens, I can usually answer them or know who to ask to get help. And, if they should ever teach, I would hope that they can carry that answer forward as a line of reasoning to their students. And thus you see my reasoning here. Both what you do and what I do, in terms of methodology are different but correct. There is no absolutely right way.

    PE

  5. #15
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    Dang. I had absolutely no intention of falling into another can of worms with you over this subject. I suspect we irritate each other . I didn't have those posts marked, but I certainly remembered them enough to do a search and rescue. Perhaps we can leave this as it should have been from the beginning.

    Every process has its beauty. There are certainly intellectual and artistic challenges and rewards with both wet plate and dags, but for simplicity, safety, and affordability, not to mention beauty and versatility, you can't beat the dry plate process. I hope more people discover its rewards. 'nuf said. back to the darkroom with me (less dangerous than forums!!)

    d

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwross View Post
    Sorry I missed this when it was first posted.

    The "silence" is more a case of hard of hearing (or is it 'listening'?). I've been shouting to the rafters until even I'm sick of me! The problem is the history of corporate ownership/monopoly on the entire silver gelatin field. Unlike with collodion, dry plate wasn't a diy process for long. It moved straight from invention to factory, and Kodak, et al, were quite determined to keep it that way. They did an excellent job of brainwashing the public. Today, heirs to that Kodak philosophy, on APUG and at GEH, are still quite determined to 'own' the process. In a page straight from George Eastman's playbook, they claim it is too hard for anyone but the experts -- as though each and every formula were part of a religious canon. Nay, I say!! ()
    Perhaps photographers were happy to purchase high-quality manufactured dry plates instead of mucking with collodion and/or gelatin coatin?

    I'm not quite sure of what the "George Eastman playbook" is, but I will say that the folks at GEH and associated with EK have been extremely generous with information and support in my own emulsion projects. Some of the best advice I've received is cautionary - it's likely saved me thousands of $.
    - Ian

  7. #17
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    Thanks Ian;

    Anyone willing to try dry plate has my fullest support in every way.

    PE

  8. #18

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    Emulsion and Dry Plate Education at George Eastman House

    Here at George Eastman House International Museum of Phtotography and Film we offer a wide range of hands-on photographic process workshops. These include everything from the dawn of photography (three workshops will actually be conducted at Lacock Abbey) to daguerreotype, wet collodion and various printing techniques...to gelatin technology. This year we have 16 process workshops; three that feature dry plate or emulsions.

    These include:

    Dry collodion negatives on glass. (this is not an emulsion process)
    Collodion-chloride printing-out paper emulsion
    Gelatin chloride AZO type emulsion for slow developed-out printing paper

    Our workshops include an introductory powerpoint presentation on the history and technology, hands-on instruction, viewing masterworks of the featured process from the museums archives, relevant readings and full instructions.

    All of our workshops are designed for the beginner, with absolutely no experience necessary to attend. Additionally, we are available for technical assistance via phone or email for any of the processes we teach (and many others that might not be on the schedule) even for those who have not taken our workshops. Anyone may come to the museum, free of charge, to do their own primary research in our photo and technology collections if they make an appointment. There is no need to make an appointment to use the research library, which contains books on optics, photo chemistry and process dating from as early as the 17th century. One visit and you'll think you have died and gone to heaven. :-)

    Our next gelatin workshop (the third one we have offered in as many years) is set to go on April 2-4th. We still have a few spaces left. This workshop will be taught by Ron Mowrey and myself. Ron's approach is from the left side of the brain and mine is from the right side. It's a strange synergy that works and allows levels to find levels in a group situation.

    If you are interested in gelatin emulsion and also want to see some amazing images, come join us and see how easy and cheap it is to make your own gelatin emulsion. No mystery...like making instant coffee.

    For specific questions, feel free to contact me directly at mosterman@geh.org

    For the link to this and our other workshops see: http://www.eastmanhouse.org/events/s...hoto-workshops


    Mark Osterman, Process Historian

  9. #19

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    Just my two cents, but the book Wilson's quarter century in photography is free on Google books, and includes recipes and such for wet and dry plates.
    Also, wet plates have a time limit on on how long you can use them. If you can bring a plate coating darkroom with you, wet plate may be fine. If you can't bring a portable darkroom, dry plate may be your only option.
    http://books.google.com/books?id=hix...rsions_r&cad=6
    http://books.google.com/books?id=YY8...rsions_r&cad=6
    http://books.google.com/books?id=NjV...rsions_r&cad=6

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