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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_5419 View Post
    one aspect I appreciate with plate photography users is that they are clearly not doing it for economic reasons - clearly they are doing it for the love of whole plates and film photography
    Not to mention the sheer perversity of it...

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oren Grad View Post
    The new Ebony cameras assume a holder that borrows the 0.260" specification from the ANSI standard for 8"x10". One must take into account the thickness of the film as well, typically 0.007". At present, we believe that a depth-to-septum in the holders of 0.260", together with external dimensions very similar to those observed in the Eastman film holders, is likely to be a reasonable compromise, both accommodating older cameras and providing a good basis for the manufacture of additional new cameras to a consistent standard should the current activity arouse wider interest in this wonderful format.

    I welcome comments/questions on any of the above.
    Oren,

    Now if we could only get someone to perform similar due diligence on another underappreciated format - 7x11. I've owned a couple whole plate cameras - including a beautiful Gandolphi that I regret selling. I found the format perfect of portraits, but for landscapes, I prefer the longer rectangle of the 7x11 format.

    It might actually be easier in this case as there were far fewer makers of 7x11 cameras - and I think all (both?) of them were in the US. The only ones I've ever seen were made by either Eastman/Kodak or Gundlach/Korona. I see from Alan Brubaker's web site that he makes his 7x11 holders with the same 8x10 ANSI 0.260 T-distance you settled on for the new whole plate holders.

    Kerry

  3. #13

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    Kerry -

    In my preferred alternate universe, the formats that survived in commercial use wouldn't have been 4x5/5x7/8x10, they would have been 3.25x4.25/6.5x8.5/7x11.

    I too can't recall seeing anything commercially produced in 7x11 other than Eastman and Korona (but am I recalling correctly that Butch Welch included 7x11 in one of his multi-format home brew cameras?).

    I'm baffled as to where Alan Brubaker got that way-out T-distance (for those who haven't checked his site, he's showing 0.300") for whole plate - looks almost like a plate holder spec to me. Maybe I should do something radical, like asking him...
    Last edited by Oren Grad; 04-05-2007 at 08:19 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #14

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    [QUOTE=Oren Grad;451565]
    I too can't recall seeing anything commercially produced in 7x11 other than Eastman and Korona (but am I recalling correctly that Butch Welch included 7x11 in one of his multi-format home brew cameras?).

    QUOTE]

    My friend Sam (the other S of S&S) has a 7X11 Eastman. He had our woodworker make a small batch of 7X11 holders some years ago, and I believe he sold some of these to Butch Welch. The model was an original Eastman holder. I think he sold the rest of them to a photographer in Canada.

    Sandy King

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking View Post
    My friend Sam (the other S of S&S) has a 7X11 Eastman.
    Quite a few years back, when I first heard of the 7x11 Eastman and was trying to learn more about it, Sam kindly shared some observations from his own experience with the camera.

  6. #16

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    Sam sold me six S&S 7x11 holders which I still have. As a matter of fact, they're in the classifieds as we speak...

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by kthalmann View Post
    Oren,

    Now if we could only get someone to perform similar due diligence on another underappreciated format - 7x11. I've owned a couple whole plate cameras - including a beautiful Gandolphi that I regret selling. I found the format perfect of portraits, but for landscapes, I prefer the longer rectangle of the 7x11 format.


    Kerry

    I sure wish you had sold me that Gandolfi! Or maybe someone can point me to a Thornton Pickard triple extension with red leather bellows in great condition?

    I find the whole plate format particulary nice for portraits and for vertical orientation still lives. For landscapes I much prefer the 5X7. 7X11 is also very nice.

    Sandy

  8. #18

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    I don't know if there was even a British whole plate standard. The only standard I have come across is the Eastman standard that I know works with Eastman, Seneca and Korona cameras, and there are quite a number of these old whole plate cameras around.
    I guess since you live in the States, this would make sense.

    Perhaps no one in the UK has shown the amount of interest in whole plate as the American contributors in this forum - I'm amazed that anyone can measure 0.007 of an inch. My Fisherprice ruler just doesn't give me that kind of accuracy.


    Other than the Eastman holders I have examined some 8-10 other whole plate holders, some of them made in England, and every one of them was diffferent. So until someone shows me otherwise the only standard that appears to exist is the Eastman.
    Might be in for a long wait - sorry I'm just not technically minded enough to use a depth micrometer. Also, the era of the double dark slide is way too modern for my own bookform plate camera knowledge. Given that the British DDS plates that I use are also manufactured by Kodak Eastman, it is possible that there was some kind of blueprint for an Eastman standard, although Oren's point about the variability within manufacturer and era of manufacture is what I have been finding.

    It's useful having the above information to consider - I'm not sure how to use it yet, but when I get my whole plate working, I'll revisit the data above.

    Thanks.

    Perhaps I take the view that the lack of knowledge of standardisation of British whole-plate film backs is not a reflection of a lack of order in its original design; merely the fact that this knowledge is now becoming lost to a different generation.

    With regards to half-plate film holders, the furthest I have got to recognising any British standard goes this far:

    http://plate_camera.livejournal.com

    The Gandolfi/Sanderson/Lancaster axis vs the Thornton Pickard half-plate sizes is one distinction which comes about from measuring flange to flange fittings (to say nothing of the T dimensions).

    The double sided holders, for film or plate do have some evidence of being standardised. I can take down the measurements and see how they compare to the Eastman standard that you describe, however Oren's data is much more accurate than I am ever going to be able to record.

    PS - Thornton Pickard Triple Extension Imperial cameras abound often in England in the half-plate variation....usually around £300 for mint era condition at antique sellers in the UK.

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob_5419 View Post

    PS - Thornton Pickard Triple Extension Imperial cameras abound often in England in the half-plate variation....usually around £300 for mint era condition at antique sellers in the UK.
    Half-plate is 4 1/2 X 6 1/2, right? If so, I have a Thornton Pickard triple extension half-plate camera in pretty nice condition. I don't have any holders, however. I understand there is a special ebay for the UK? I guess that might be the place to look.

    As for precision in measurment, there may be a little optimism in the kind of accuracy some of us are throwing out. But I measure as best I can and without further gnashing of teeth, accept what I appear to read. In any event, small differences in T-dimension are not all that important because they can be readily addressed by shims. The more important issues is width of the holder, and distance from the end to the rib-lock, because if a holder won't fit the camera the T-dimension is of no importance anyway.

    Sandy King

  10. #20

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    Strangely, I just picked up a Ansco whole plate, but it has NO notch for a riblock. Came with to beautiful, but badly made Premo plate holders, which of course have ribs.

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