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  1. #1

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    Adding new lenses for Voigdlander Bergheil

    Hello to everyone,

    It is my first post on APUG forum.
    I just bougth two Voigdlander Bergheil cameras: 6x9 with Heliar 105 f/4.5 and RADA film back and 9x12 with Heliar 150mm f/4.5 and 6 film holders. Both are in wonderful condition and Heliars a coated (dated from 1962 and 1955).
    I want to use them with b&w landscape photography and need to buy a few lenses more with shutters - preferably TH Cooke, Bausch&Lomb, Dallmeyer or Dagor lenses. For each camera I look for wide ange and long lens: for Bergheil 6x9 around something like 65mm and 165mm focal lenght and for Bergeil 9x12 around 75-90mm and 210mm.

    I know they should be compact to be able to fit the hole in front standard, for Bergheil 6x9 the outer rear lens diameter should not be larger than 32mm and for 9x12 one larger than 40mm. The shutters also can not be to large becouse will not base on the front plate - for 6x9 sholud be not wider than 59mm, for 9x12 wider then 73mm.

    Need your suggestions which lenses should I fook and go for, I do not have much experiences with vintage lenses. Any hepl will be apreciated.

    BTW, my Heliar 150mm f/4.5 seems it will not fit to my 9x12 Bergheil becouse its rear lens diameter is 43mm but front hole diameter is 44mm - there is no space for the ring you screw on the rear to tighten the special flange to the lens but (the ring) must go into the hole. I have compared it with my 6x9 Bergheil and the ring goes just right into the hole. Probably I need Heliar 135mm f/4.3. My Heliar 150 is in mint condition, if someone have 135mm Heliar version in very good condition (or the same focal lenght - Cooke, TH Cooke, Bausch&Lomb, Dallmeyer) and wants to exchange, let me know it please.

    Piotr




  2. #2
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Welcome to APUG.

    It's the shutter size that'll be most important, the 6x9 should be a rim-set Compur 0, and they are standard. A 65mm Super Angulon almost certainly won't fit, but a an Angulon would, or a WA Dagor in a Compur.

    The 9x12 again will depend on the shutter, the Dial set Compurs were never standard so it's hard to say much. but you'd need to find the attaching mounts.

    Ian

  3. #3

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    Is it any way I can be sure before purchasing whether the Angulon 65mm f/6.8 wide angle lens will cover the Bergheil's 6x9 size? Is not this 65mm focal lenght too wide for this camera? How can I measure it?

  4. #4
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Look on the Schneider websites, here's one of them

    It does cover and full details are given.

    Ian

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    The 9x12 again will depend on the shutter, the Dial set Compurs were never standard so it's hard to say much. but you'd need to find the attaching mounts.
    Is it just the dialsets? My 9x12 Bergheil has a rimset Compur---does that mean I can swap in anything in another rimset Compur of the same nominal size? (#1, I think.)

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  6. #6

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    Ian,

    I was not presise. I mean how can I know before purchasing the lens, how wide focal lenght my Bergheil 6x9 or 9x12 or any plate camera can accept giving me possibiltity of making pictures without any limitations ?
    I want to buy and adopt Angulon 65mm f/6.8 but I am not sure if I can use this focal lenght with my Bergheil 6x9...
    excuse me for that maybe simple question.

  7. #7
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renes View Post
    Ian,

    I was not presise. I mean how can I know before purchasing the lens, how wide focal lenght my Bergheil 6x9 or 9x12 or any plate camera can accept giving me possibiltity of making pictures without any limitations ?
    I want to buy and adopt Angulon 65mm f/6.8 but I am not sure if I can use this focal lenght with my Bergheil 6x9...
    excuse me for that maybe simple question.
    Really you need to look and see what lenses Voightlander sold with the camera, in the 20's/very early 30's.

    The 65 mm Angulon has small front & rear cells so will fit, it's whether it will focus, and if you can make a plate to fit it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ntenny View Post
    Is it just the dialsets? My 9x12 Bergheil has a rimset Compur---does that mean I can swap in anything in another rimset Compur of the same nominal size? (#1, I think.)

    -NT
    It's the same answer as above, but the restriction is what rear cell will fit through the mount/hole.

    The rimset lens is usually a Compur 1, so a 90mm Angulon will fit with an adaptor plate as it's in a Compur 0, I have tried mine on my 2nd Patent Etui, and an unbranded 9x12, and I can focus etc.

    But the issue for both of you is the mount to fit the Bergheil's

    Ian

  8. #8

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    Ian,

    The mount (special flange) I can make but the question is if I am able to focus with Angulon 65mm...

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    What is the minimum distance from ground glass to that flange?

  10. #10
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by renes View Post
    Ian,

    The mount (special flange) I can make but the question is if I am able to focus with Angulon 65mm...
    Try focusing with a 50mm enlarger lens, in comparison a 65mm will be easier.

    As the front standard slides right back into the body there's no reason why you can't focus a 65mm.

    A far bigger problem is the 65mm f6.8 will be difficult to ficus on the ground glass, and you may need to make a focus scale. You need to find and try one before spending money.

    Iab

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