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  1. #31
    blansky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Will S
    I really didn't want to get into this, but here are just a couple of quick (hopefully) accurate factoids:

    All Germans had to be evaluated after the war so that they could be "de-Nazified" and they were categorized from 1 (Nazi) to 5 (totally innocent). Reifenstahl was found to be a 4. I can't remember where I read that, but wikipedia says it as well.

    The Great Depression was already over by 1939, though job levels didn't return to 1929 levels until 1941 (before Pearl Harbor). (I just confirmed this on wikipedia too.)


    Will
    Using Wikopedia as a reference on anything is like using Osama bin Laden as a reference on religion.


    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky
    Using Wikopedia as a reference on anything is like using Osama bin Laden as a reference on religion.
    Michael
    Now, does this earn you a fatwa, or 72 virgins?

    I suppose it depends on how much of a sense of humour Osama bin L. has, and whether he's familiar with Wikipedia.

    Cheers,

    Roger

  3. #33
    Will S's Avatar
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    I just don't have access to those "things" that have all of the information in them here at work so I have to use wikipedia. What are those "things" called anyway? You know, rectangular, large, heavy? Use 'em to flatten prints? It will come to me...
    "I am an anarchist." - HCB
    "I wanna be anarchist." - JR

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
    Dear Frank,

    I'd certainly agree that she did a lot of better pictures. But equally, I think your point about 'distraction' is a red herring. As I said, I have seen a lot of her work, and my view is that she was a very great photographer, even if that isn't one of her best pictures (and as I've said, I don't think it was).

    My real objection is to the idea that she was a Nazi and therefore can't have been a great photographer. This is exactly the same as saying that Alexandr Rodchenko can't have been a great photographer because he was a communist or that Mapplethorpe can't have been a great photographer because he was gay.

    Cheers,

    Roger
    Roger,

    My name is George.

    You still haven't answered the OP's query?

    Forget the photog, forget her background, forget her other work....

    Is the particular photo one of the best sports portraits ever made?

  5. #35

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    Here is a perfect case for thinking of the photograph, not the baggage of the photographer. This is a fantastic image, but i am not sure I would rank it as the greatest.

    To me, for a sports photograph to be great it would have to scream emotion, elation, defeat, exhaustian something that defined the sport. More than just intense concentration.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  6. #36
    bill schwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham
    Is the particular photo one of the best sports portraits ever made?
    Hardly. Personally, I think this one is better.

    B.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham
    Is the particular photo one of the best sports portraits ever made?
    Doesn't do much for me.

    BTW, just what is a "sports portrait"?

  8. #38

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    All right, it's her own words (Leni Riefenshahl, A Memoir), but presumably the facts can be checked: 10,000 DM ($2500) as an out-of-court from Revue magazine c. 1953. They had suggested she was an active Nazi with knowledge of atrocities. If they'd had a hope in hell of proving it they'd not have settled like this, they'd not have settled.

    She was born in August 1902 and was therefore in her early 30s when Hitler came to power. Looking back on my own conscience in my early 30s it was probably more flexible than it is today, 25 years later, and I think Leni was better than I at not seeing what she didn't want to see. She was also a lot better at what she did -- cinematography -- and allowed herself to be blinded by her ambition.

    My own view is on the 'soft' end. I don't think that what she did was honourable or even necessarily explicable, but equally, I can't accept the view of her as drinking the blood of Jews. Of course I'd like to think I'd have had higher principles, and I sincerely believe that I'd probably have been kicked out of Hitler's Germany, but I cannot put my hand in my heart and swear with absolute confidence that I'd have behaved a lot better than Leni if I'd been allowed to stay.

    Perhaps her most damning film is Tiefland (which I have not seen, only read about), and even with that, no-one was ever able to hang serious Nazi charges on her, despite the best attempts of the French (who appealed unsuccessfully against each denazification verdict)

    As Michael says, totalitarian regimes are outside the experience of most of us. I've known a few ex-Nazis, but what sticks in my mind is a comment by a friend who joined the Young Communists in Britain in the 1930s: "The Nazis were glamorous: all the uniforms, the parades, the whole bit. If I'd been a German, I can't say I wouldn't have joined. And this is a communist speaking."

    Cheers,

    Roger

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by billschwab
    Hardly. Personally, I think this one is better.

    B.
    Now that's a well done portrait. Who did it?

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham
    Roger,

    My name is George.
    Dear George (and not Frank at all),

    I apologize unreservedly; I can't see how I made such a stupid mistake.

    But I think I have answered the original query. I said she had taken many better pictures, thereby implying fairly clearly, I think, that I don't think it's one of the greatest sporting portraits ever.

    This does not detract from the point I make to other posters that I think she was a very great photographer, regardless of her politics (which were immediately brought into the arena).

    Cheers,

    Roger

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