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  1. #101
    kb3lms's Avatar
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    Chris,

    No, but I had often thought about it. I think Denise said it didn't work. If you want something that peels when dry, just use regular Dura-lar or the Clear-Lay PVC film.

    Update on my Dura-Lar, I got it to work yesterday. The answer to the frilling at this point is erythritol, a sugar alcohol similar to sorbitol. It is available in any grocery store - brand name is Truvia, I think. I used the Walmart house brand. I will put the details of my current solution in the other thread, here: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum205/...-frilling.html

    Compared to all the films I have tried, this NaOH treated Dura-Lar coats like a dream. I think it will be my "go to" film base. I'd say put the Dura-Lar at the top of the list.

    Umut, the credit goes to you for originally pulling this information out of the historical noise. Great find!

    -- Jason
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

  2. #102
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    That makes sense that a humectant/plasticizer such as erythritol would help out. I've used sorbitol for my dye-imbibition coatings and it's worked very well, though frilling was never a problem.

    So a (somewhat) interesting development with Dura-Lar Wet Media. I coated 2 more sheets; 1 that was washed in hot water and 1 fresh sheet. Both coatings are sticking nicely to the surface, which is somewhat perplexing. My thinking was that the wash would destroy the subbing layer and I was hoping to find that it would peel off when dry. I'll cut both sheets and see if frilling is a problem at cut edges.

    But as far as my limited testing can determine, Dura-Lar Wet Media is a reasonable option for a film base. Unfortunately it's a little thin, and isn't as ideal as a 7-mil substrate, but hey, it could be useful for a lot of things nonetheless. I too recall that Denise said this base doesn't work, and so that's why I'm somewhat confused. Denise, if you're reading, I'd love to hear more about your experience with it.

    If indeed my tests are telling, it begs the question what do they use for their subbing layer? Subbed melinex is definitely destroyed by washing, so I had assumed that this would be true for most other subbings. Interesting...
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe

  3. #103
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    what do they use for their subbing layer
    They use that , read that book:http://www.scribd.com/doc/16314506/V...sition-Charles

    VACUUM DEPOSITION ONTO WEBS,FILMS,AND FOILS

  4. #104
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Photographic polyester supports with copolymer subbing layer
    Toshiaki Yamazaki et al
    Patent number: 4571379
    Filing date: Feb 13, 1985
    Issue date: Feb 18, 1986

  5. #105
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    subbing layer is LATEX

  6. #106
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    We suspect that the subbing layer on the version of Melinex that we have via Jim Browning is a latex. Teijin and ICI both hold patents for subbing layers. IIRC, they both use latex.

    PE

  7. #107
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Thank you PE,

    Above patent describes to manufacture Latex in 5 hours at 85 celcius degrees.

    Umut

  8. #108
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    http://www.tappi.org/content/events/...rs/paisley.pdf

    Who wants to make his her subbing layer needs PVDC Latex. Above paper gives hints about this material.

    Umut

  9. #109
    kb3lms's Avatar
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    Everyone,

    Here's a scan of a 35mm frame of the PET based film. Other than the dust, I think this turned out really well. This was exposed and processed about a week and a half ago as a single frame cut from a coated sheet. The rest of the sheet was used for 6x9 negatives. Straight out of VueScan.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    One thing that I will note is that the left side of the frame has begun to detach from the base. The right half has not. But, the left side is where the film was cut, the right side was not cut. I didn't see any detaching in my three 120 6x9 negatives, though.

    So, I guess there are still some things to work out.

    -- Jason
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

  10. #110
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    Looks good Jason, though a bit troubling about the delamination. Then again, it can't be too easy, right?
    If you are the big tree, we are the small axe



 

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