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  1. #21

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    http://www.hififilm.com/html/polyester.html
    These people are very helpful and may have a suitable product with a commercially/volume acceptable offer
    I use them at work for printable films for labels :-)

  2. #22
    dwross's Avatar
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    Excellent resource. Thank you for posting it.

    There is one thing to watch out for when looking for suitable film (besides thickness). Almost all treated polyester films today are subbed for solvent-based fluids. Without exception that I'm aware of (and there is an encyclopedia of things I'm not aware of), this means they are hydrophobic, i.e. shed and bead emulsion, and/or go all goopy and gloppy. You want to be sure to ask for hydrophilic subbing.
    www.thelightfarm.com
    Dedicated to Handmade Silver Gelatin Paper, Film, and Dry Plates.

  3. #23
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwross View Post
    Almost all treated polyester films today are subbed for solvent-based fluids. Without exception that I'm aware of
    Except those I mentioned earlier which are subbed for water based UV inks.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    There are many PET materials available in 0.125mm and 0.175mm thicknesses which either have surface coatings or surface treatments to aid the screen printing of inks.

    The company I work for uses a lot of this material which we buy in 2' x 3' sheets.

    For our purposes, there are two types of coating/treatment. One is suitable for solvent based inks and the other for water based UV cured inks. It is the latter type which I think would be more suitable for emulsion.

    A while ago, I collected together some samples for Denise to try out but to my shame, I have just realised that they are probably still in my drawer at work. If you're reading this Denise, please accept my apologies. I will try to post the pieces soon.

    Other manufacturers:

    http://www.macdermidautotype.com/

    http://www.melrose-nl.com/files/Spec...m_Brochure.pdf

    There are also some polycarbonates and polyester/polycarbonate blends which might be suitable. I will go through what we have at work tomorrow and post other materials/sources.

    Note: Mylar is a DuPont trade name, not a general term for polyester.


    Steve.
    hi steve,

    i see that macdermid have a distributor in my country, but what i see from their website it's just confusing for me. which product is usable for this application?

  5. #25
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    Hi Steve,

    The UV inks are an exciting development. UV-cure technology seems like near-magic to me. I use a UV-curable adhesive to make glass emulsion wells. I can work under a yellow bug light for many minutes, but the second (make that nanosecond!) it sees UV light, it sets up and adheres like the original glass. I have had my first attempts (Fail!) outside in my garden as decoration for four years. Rain, sun, frost...and they still are glued rock solid. Amazing.

    With the inks, though, is it a matter of substrated material or the inks themselves? Here's some info: http://www.signindustry.com/flatbed_...-JL_UVpt2.php3

    I plucked the following quote out. It seems to suggest that the reason the UV inks work so well is that they dry faster than they can penetrate the subbing. If that's the case, they could go on any substrate, which isn't the case with silver gelatin emulsions. Of course, this is just one article and no doubt the picture is complicated and evolving. Gotta love science! I'd love to hear more about the films you're working with and perhaps even get my hands on them (hint, hint )

    Water-based
    Water-based UV inkjet technology is attracting attention because it uses water as a diluent to produce lower viscosity. Water-based UV inks are formulated with UV-curable resin emulsions. But there are drawbacks with this technology. The system needs to get rid of the water before the UV lamp cures the ink.

    “Getting rid of the water is difficult as you want to cure as quickly as possible to prevent undesirable dot gain, wicking or feathering into the substrate,” says Emery. “If water is present, then the ink will not adhere to the substrate. UV curable inks that are 100 percent solids will be the first product available.”
    www.thelightfarm.com
    Dedicated to Handmade Silver Gelatin Paper, Film, and Dry Plates.

  6. #26
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by daveandiputra View Post
    what i see from their website it's just confusing for me. which product is usable for this application?
    This material, CT5 is what we use a lot of. We print solvent based conductive inks and water based UV cured dielectric inks onto it.

    http://www.macdermidautotype.com/pro...at/autostat-ct


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  7. #27
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwross View Post
    The UV inks are an exciting development. UV-cure technology seems like near-magic to me.
    The best UV cured product I have seen is the lacquer finishes for guitars. Traditionally, they would be sprayed then left for several weeks before final finishing. Now they can be worked on less than an hour after application.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  8. #28
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    Yeah, there are more levels to "surface treatment" than just treated or not treated. Photographic emulsion seems to be very demanding and needs a particularly "good" surface treatment. Some products that are treated for inks, may not work for emulsion. Heck, they don't even work with all inks...

    So, for example, there is polyester sheet available that is corona treated at factory to make printing possible. So it seems that the corona treatment is not completely volatile. It remains good enough for most inks, but not good enough for emulsion (and some inks).

    But given that 3M product, it's probably easiest to just buy and use it. Do you know of any retailers who sell those with international shipping?

  9. #29
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    You might start here (??, of course.)

    http://solutions.3msuomi.fi/wps/port...I/EU2/Country/
    www.thelightfarm.com
    Dedicated to Handmade Silver Gelatin Paper, Film, and Dry Plates.

  10. #30
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    For photographic use, corona discharge is considered unusable after about 48 hours. I'm giving our normal guidelines at EK. Therefore I would bombard either in-line (ILEB) or I would schedule bombardment 24 hours before my coating time.

    PE

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