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  1. #51
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Thank you Chris to heads up.

  2. #52
    kb3lms's Avatar
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    Thanks Chris and Umut. Looks interesting. Does anyone have access to the full article? There are also some patents that refer to the same sort of idea. Would it be likely to work with sodium hydroxide as well? The first page mentions polycarbonate as well as PET. I've got a whole roll of polycarbonate film to experiment with. I'd figured out a way to sub it but it didn't come out looking very nice and wasn't as flexible as when I started.

    Then again, I haven't made much of a dent in the support Denise sent me. :-(
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

  3. #53
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Sodium Hydroxide would be as good as Potassium Hydroxide but you may need a bit more of the Na salt to adjust for molecular weight and for the very tiny decrease in alkalinity of the Na.

    PE

  4. #54
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    Ron, do you recall if you or Jim B. ever came upon methods for subbing PET? I remember that you mentioned researching this a bit in the past and I believe the answer was no. So, is this an epiphany, or something that perhaps you've deemed impractical?

    Just curious; I'm gonna shoot Jim an email too.

  5. #55
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    I really don't know what Jim tried. I don't think that he did any subbing experiments. I feel that if this were commercially feasible, then someone would have reduced it to practice, but I have never heard of it being used. Technically, it should work, but it may be impractical from some POV.

    PE

  6. #56
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    Thanks Ron; I'll report what Jim responds with.

    I'm also interested in "flaming" methods of hydrophillisizing (is that a word?) PET. An inline blow-torch perhaps? Could be fun!

  7. #57
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    AFAIK, flaming is quite difficult to control and is prone to deforming the material. It has been almost completely abandoned decades or half a century ago for corona treatment. I would use that effort to try your luck with corona which is very simple in theory. Still, the only real problem is sourcing the suitable transformers for low price.

  8. #58
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    Have you ever thought of just running a blank sheet of Estar through a Xerographic machine? That may give it enough of a charge.

    PE

  9. #59
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    Haven't tried but it probably won't work, because what I found out is that it's not the charge but the quickly toggling charge that causes the surface treatment. Therefore, DC did nothing but just gave the static charge. It needs to be high-frequency AC.

  10. #60
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    The idea of etching PET with an alkali metal hydroxide seems common enough in the patent literature and there is also mention of resin coating and, of course, corona discharge. The corona discharge method appears to be considered the state of the art for maybe the past 20 or so years, likely because it may be more controllable and easily able to be done as an in-line process step without chemicals.

    Tonight, I did try a quick experiment with a 10% solution of sodium hydroxide in water, which brings the first problem: PET is hydrophobic so the solution runs right off. (duh!) What's an appropriate solvent for the NaOH? Perhaps ethanol or methanol? Would a wetting agent like photo-flo help? There were some references to ethylene glycol as a solvent as well.

    -- Jason
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.



 

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