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  1. #51

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    hi ron

    i think it is collodion tintypes they are making.
    i looked at that workshop, it looked like lots and lots of fun.
    one of these days, i gotta break the chains of my bondage and head to rochester !

    have a nice night
    ( playing boil them cabbage down on his lap dulcimer )
    john
    im empty, good luck

  2. #52

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    Quote Originally Posted by dwross View Post
    Oy! Ron,

    Yuh just gotta stop saying stuff like this. People take you seriously and at your word, but they shouldn't. I just can't figure out why you want to make things seem so hard. But, words are only words.

    It certainly is possible to make a usable emulsion with minimum fuss and bother. However, making reproducible emulsions with exactly the same properties day after day and year after year is NOT easy. I've known Ron for over 40 years. What he is trying to do is develop workable manufacturing processes/formulas that produce reproducible 'do it yourself' results time after time. That's what he did at Kodak.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Many thanks Ian. You are one of many that are holding my virtual hand over the internet. Mark is doing the same. Only, next week he is sailing down the Erie canal with Chris and Nick. They are doing dry plate (IIRC) and supplying period music with banjo, mouth organ, washtub and guitar. Knowing my limits, I am staying out of this workshop!

    Best wishes to al.

    PE
    Let me guess... your accordion is in for repairs, so you can't participate.
    - Ian

  4. #54
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    Ian, my wife is the dulcimer person. I am violin! My violin is out of tune and practice. I would love to learn from Mark, but we have little time to digress from our core silver gelatin when we meet, as you know when you join us. BTW, this will not be next wee! ::

    Fred, many thanks. I appreciate the comments.

    Oh, BTW, I get very seasick.

    PE

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    ..... A simple published formula such as AJ-12, published here on APUG cannot be tinkered with unless you know a lot about what you are doing or have some expect backup. This is a Kodak formula, but one that can only be made exactly as written.

    PE
    If I can add another 2 cents - even the AJ-12 formula, which is fairly explicit in detail (compared to many other 'old' formulae), contains some fuzzy areas such as "Heat the emulsion to 15 minutes at 130 F (55 C) for further ripening; then slowly cool it to 104 F (40 C)." How long is "slowly cool"? 5 minutes? An hour? All the while, there is activity in the kettle which will affect the final result. Another, but not so critical item: "Soak 1 ounce 180 grains (40 grams) of gelatin in cold water until it is thoroughly softened. Pour off excess water ". What is 'thoroughly softened'? How much water should the gelatin absorb? Similarly, the noodling/washing procedure does not specify temperate, or what kind of water (tap water, distilled, DI). As I have learned, overwashing can ruin an emulsion, by diluting it and/or rendering it unstable.

    Can such a formula be followed exactly as written? The formula part: almost. The procedure: kinda. Frequently one encounters frustratingly vague phrases like "in a manner familiar to one practiced in the art". Whatever one's interpretation of the 'grey areas' of a procedure, it's good policy to aim for a manageable and reproducible set of parameters. i.e. always use the same water, use a chill bath instead of "slowly cool", and do it the same way every time.

    Fortunately, the home emulsion-maker is not likely to be growing t-grains, or using complex dopants, so there is a fair amount of wiggle room in procedure that will still yield a pleasantly usable brew. The magic of seeing a home-brewed and coated glass plate is nothing short of thrilling!
    - Ian

  6. #56
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
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    We have a decent setup here in Toronto for work. How hard would it be to make a consistent emulsion on rag paper?

    Ron I am specifically thinking the wonderful samples you showed me that IMO looked like an Extalure Print on a lovely watercolour paper.

    I do plan to do the workshop with Paulette as soon as we can.

    Bob

  7. #57
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    A bazillion thanks to Ron (PE) for putting up with my endless questions, supplying answers and suggested reading, and providing much "hand-holding" along the way.
    Double-dittos to that!

    The good news about emulsion making is that even with basic tools and materials there isn't that much reason not to try if you are interested. Sure, you don't get perfection and absolute reproducibility might not be possible but you CAN make something that will work, experience the process and get an appreciation for what people like Ron and Fred and others have done for all of us over the years. As Ron gets closer to the goals he is pursuing we all benefit.

    And you can get the pride and satisfaction of "I made it myself." As long as you are careful and observe common sense precautions, even if you do totally mess up a batch, you're out some time and money but probably not more than that. Denise's web site, The Light Farm, is great in the encouragement it provides to go out and try and she provides a lot of great information. I don't think anyone pretends that they can use what they find there to go out and start making salable products. Growing T-Grains in your basement is another matter entirely.

    John: I definitely get the "chains of bondage" thing.

    -- Jason
    All this has happened before, and all this will happen again.

  8. #58
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    Ian, thanks for putting things in the perspective of one who has BTDT with a "good" formula published by EK no less.

    Bob, using Ian's example, we will leave nothing to question. We give precise instructions with which you can repeat the emulsion so exactly that you can blend batches with no deviation in speed or contrast.

    PE

  9. #59
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    I look forward to visiting Rochester again and rubbing shoulders.

    I also am negotiating a much larger group to visit for a few days and am speaking to Mark O about this.
    I will keep you in the loop.
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Ian, thanks for putting things in the perspective of one who has BTDT with a "good" formula published by EK no less.

    Bob, using Ian's example, we will leave nothing to question. We give precise instructions with which you can repeat the emulsion so exactly that you can blend batches with no deviation in speed or contrast.

    PE

  10. #60
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    Well, this coming week, I said that Mark will be on the Eerie Canal!

    He is going to be exhausted after class every day and at the end of the week.

    See you soon.



 

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