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  1. #31
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Here we go again. Read my OP. I said much the same thing there.

    And, just because it was used 100 years ago does not mean that it is good, better or best. It NH4X salts were not in common use for manufacturing or hobby purposes for nearly 75 years due to lack of any overwhelming advantage!

    PE

  2. #32
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    75 years. Yup. That's just about perfect . Kodak materials were in their glory. In 1938, Katherine Hepburn and Cary Grant were "Bring Up Baby". One of my favorite movies, "It Happened One Night", was already four years old. Lovely films, both. My bridge across the Yaquina Bay was two years old. So was Hoover Dam. And the Golden Gate Bridge. The 1930's were an economic challenge for many people, but as far as technology, and art -- I'm proud to have my work harken back to those times.
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  3. #33
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    Thanks for taking the time to post this. Your first paragraphs answered a question I have pondered for too many years.

    Jim
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]Films NOT Dead - Just getting fixed![/FONT]

  4. #34

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    That sounds like non sequitur reasoning to me. Just because things were done someway 75 years ago doesn't mean we should do them that way today; 75 years ago, cars used leaded gas and had tube tires. Who wants those things today.

  5. #35
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    Well, I guess your attitude is consistent for a guy who has the brass to use "Prof Pixel" as a username on APUG.

    You may want to consider being a bit less dogmatic when you're around Mark Osterman. His bread and butter, and that of George Eastman House, is all about preserving the old and historical. Some people actually want to do just that. Perhaps you could leave us to our personal tastes and goals.

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  6. #36
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Mark's emulsion does not use any Ammonium Halide salts.

    Denise, as stated in the OP, you can make Phosphorous by distilling rotted horse urine from a bed of sand. That is not done today for a number of obvious reasons, but the method works even today.

    You can make emulsions with NH4X salts, but it is not necessary. It adds nothing to your work except the label "exotic" and it takes up space on your lab shelves and in your refrigerator. Yes, you can stock all 7 major Halide salts, but I can make do with just 3. It saves money as well.

    So, why use it? IDK. None of my co-workers used it. As stated above, they did use (NH4)2SO4 and NH4OH for making emulsions and to much better effect. See those electron micrographs again!!

    PE
    Last edited by Photo Engineer; 10-24-2013 at 06:35 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #37
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    OK. One more try. Any more and I'll have to go find a giff about beating a dead horse.

    You ask "why?". It is a far more beautiful emulsion than the identical one with KBr (to me, and who else matters?)

    It allows the use of much more vigorous developers, so it is effectively faster.

    I made a full ammoniacal emulsion today. The one that will allow me to shoot my 120 rangefinder handheld at a festival this weekend. But, you see, I have excellent ventilation. It wouldn't be so simple if I didn't. Many people are unable to make ammoniacal emulsions. That doesn't make them second class citizens. They should have options. I would never think of telling people they shouldn't be making your emulsions. Actually, I'm not sure exactly what "your" emulsions are. Never see pictures.

    I only stock two bromides. Potassium and ammonium. Does that mean I "win" that particular contest?

    I'm sure you'll come back again, swinging from a different corner of your box, but now it's my turn to ask "why?" I'll leave your answer unchallenged.
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  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwross View Post
    OK. One more try. Any more and I'll have to go find a giff about beating a dead horse.

    You ask "why?". It is a far more beautiful emulsion than the identical one with KBr (to me, and who else matters?)

    It allows the use of much more vigorous developers, so it is effectively faster.

    I made a full ammoniacal emulsion today. The one that will allow me to shoot my 120 rangefinder handheld at a festival this weekend. But, you see, I have excellent ventilation. It wouldn't be so simple if I didn't. Many people are unable to make ammoniacal emulsions. That doesn't make them second class citizens. They should have options. I would never think of telling people they shouldn't be making your emulsions. Actually, I'm not sure exactly what "your" emulsions are. Never see pictures.

    I only stock two bromides. Potassium and ammonium. Does that mean I "win" that particular contest?

    I'm sure you'll come back again, swinging from a different corner of your box, but now it's my turn to ask "why?" I'll leave your answer unchallenged.
    I've been following this thread out of curiosity since PE is "dropping the knowledge" but it's still a little far advance for me most the time, but I have a simpleton question.

    You said it allows for more vigorous agitation, but wouldn't that also make for really grainy images? I know that's not really the question here but I guess it seems sort of counterproductive to make an emulsion that you can only make fast by making it severely grainy. unless you are specifically going for that look.

    Please forgive me if I'm totally confused here.


    Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
    ~Stone | "...of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong." ~Dennis Miller

  9. #39
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    Hi Stone,

    The fact that you are totally confused is sad beyond expression. It's certainly not your fault. Making emulsions (at the home darkroom level) is simpler than baking a cake. It is nearly tragic that it is not allowed to be simple here.

    I didn't mean vigorous agitation. Rather, more vigorous developer formulas. The best I can respond is to ask you to read three short pages, starting here: http://thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/html...tent=15Jun2013
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  10. #40
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    Denise, there are people here that make high speed emulsions with absolutely no Ammonia whatsoever either. So, just about anything is possible. It is what you must do vs what is optional that is being described (and tested) here in this thread.

    It is certainly easy to make an emulsion. I use NaBr, NaCl and KI as my 3 salts. I use NH4OH as my source of Ammonia if desired. I get good speed and tone. You have seen my prints and plates personally snf do have my students. So, if what you do makes you happy, then do it. I do what seems to make my students happy and it also makes me happy.

    Best wishes.

    PE

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