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  1. #11

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    I can only agree with the photo engineer! The coating machines is not the type of machines you go into the supermarket and just lift it down from the self! They are very special machines and custom built directly for the manufacturer. I would think that they are some very secret blueprints too!

    I mean just try Rochester and ask if you can copy their machines! What would be an answer do you think? Also companies involved to build those coating plants probably have agreement on secrecy too! Also you should just think about how much it would cost to built one as probably in today’s standard would be very sophisticated too not like older machines which I have seen! An order like this must be a massive enginering with massive costs.
    As if my information is correct J&C never did any coating they are in the re-labelling industry and that is very far from coating films in any sense! There is no technical known how and only a few people in the world would manage it! They buy films from probably Forte and put their label on it! The film is technically speaking is very similar! They have never produced as much as one sheet film! Noticeable is that if you scratch on the surface you just might find out that many children have one father!!!

    Just think the company would like to have as I heard your money in advance and you got to wait long time to delivery in some film sizes! It seems that time goes to collecting a large order together and some time goes to shipping and waiting for delivery from somewhere else as it’s the case from Europe!

    Also it’s good to spread false information that you are better than others as there is many “re- labelling manufacturers” of film in the ever smaller market! To invest on coating film today in my point of you would be that you signing your death warrant in any cases!

    I can think of the scenario that J&C come by an old machine somehow but operating this is far from turn the switch on!

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hologram View Post
    This is a small professional coating machine: http://www.holotec.de/Holotec_en/index.htm and
    here's an amateur version:
    http://holographyforum.org/phpBB2/vi...oating+machine

    Love your insert but it's very far from industrial facilities! This mashines is to coate "some" holographic plates on glass say a couple of it during a week!

    A plant have many so called around equipment too! Not just a table!

  3. #13
    juan's Avatar
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    I had to do some research on paper manufacturing a while back. In my part of the US, ordinary paper (writing paper, newsprint, etc.) is made in huge plants. I was surprised to learn that a lot of specialty paper (absorbent wipes, toweling, special surfaces, etc.) is made in very small facilities. The paper making machines are of unique design, specific to the the kind of paper being made, and specific to the actual building that houses them. While these papers are not coated, they do sometimes involve a rather complicated bonding of layers.

    It would seem that a photographic coating operating could be similarly built - complicated and exacting, but not extremely difficult.
    juan

  4. #14
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    For small quantities, is there any reason why emulsion could not be screen printed?

    Has anyone tried this?

    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  5. #15
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    Emulsions can be screen printed and they look exactly like the screen, textured! BTDT.

    Coating film and paper in a quantity large enough to supply even only APUG members is a daunting task, espcially film on 2 supports and in sizes from 35mm to 11x14 or larger and in different varieties.

    Paper, ditto, lots of supports and grades.

    As for getting support, well Baryta paper is very difficult to make requiring very high pressure rollers to get any sort of glossy surface otherwise it turns out like sandpaper. If you don't get it just right, the emulsion you coat on it will turn black in spots due to imperfections. Even the photograde baryta paper I buy now has occasional black defects in it, and I would have to custom tune my formula to the paper. At EK, this black dot problem was solved over 50 years ago. (btw, this is not pepper grain and is unrelated)

    So, you need a lot of expertise to do it. If you don't believe me, try making up enough 8x10 paper of high quality to last you a week. It takes me about one week to make enough emulsion and coat 2 grades of paper for this.

    These 'so called' coating machines above are only able to make one plate at a time and require extensive cleaning between each plate. A production machine has to be designed for continuous running and very little cleanup. Otherwise labor and time skyrocket.

    I'm getting tired of this same old argument over and over. If it was so easy, there would be a lot of little companies doing it instead of 3 big ones and other once great ones falling one by one such as Agfa and Ferrania.

    PE

  6. #16
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Emulsions can be screen printed and they look exactly like the screen, textured! BTDT.
    I thought that might be the case. We do have some very fine stainless steel mesh now but unless the emulsion is going to flow a bit after printing, there will be an impression of the mesh on the emulsion as you state. Might be an interesting effect though!


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by juan View Post
    I had to do some research on paper manufacturing a while back. In my part of the US, ordinary paper (writing paper, newsprint, etc.) is made in huge plants. I was surprised to learn that a lot of specialty paper (absorbent wipes, toweling, special surfaces, etc.) is made in very small facilities. The paper making machines are of unique design, specific to the the kind of paper being made, and specific to the actual building that houses them. While these papers are not coated, they do sometimes involve a rather complicated bonding of layers.

    It would seem that a photographic coating operating could be similarly built - complicated and exacting, but not extremely difficult.
    juan

    I'm shure you talking about some so called hand made pappers but surely I wouldn't bother using it in the photographic process!
    I do coating pappers myself but than it's never handmade or papper comes out of primitive processes!
    I mean just think about what one sheet of papper going throught in just lets say in Gum printing!

  8. #18

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    Ferrania

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    If it was so easy, there would be a lot of little companies doing it instead of 3 big ones and other once great ones falling one by one such as Agfa and Ferrania.

    PE

    AFAIK the Ferrania coating facility in Oklahoma is still in operation making C-41 emulsions, for private label use, their own brand Solaris, and single use cameras.

  9. #19
    juan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by uraniumnitrate View Post
    I'm shure you talking about some so called hand made pappers but surely I wouldn't bother using it in the photographic process!
    I do coating pappers myself but than it's never handmade or papper comes out of primitive processes!
    I mean just think about what one sheet of papper going throught in just lets say in Gum printing!
    No, I'm not talking about hand made papers at all. I'm talking about specialty papers that are made specifically for special applications and are sold in the marketplace commercially worldwide. One machine I saw, for instance, produces paper at 900 feet per minute - hardly a primitive process.

    You're right that these are not papers to use in the photographic process, but they are critically made to perform in a special market. My point is that specialized products can be manufactured to exacting standards by small companies. Whether the manufacture of photographic products could be economically viable, I don't know. As Ron points out, there are lots of film and paper sizes. Again, not easy, but possible with good engineering.
    juan

  10. #20
    Dave Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PHOTOTONE View Post
    AFAIK the Ferrania coating facility in Oklahoma is still in operation making C-41 emulsions, for private label use, their own brand Solaris, and single use cameras.

    They are still listing the OK plant on their contact list.

    http://www.ferraniait.com/Contacts.htm

    Dave

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