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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan McIntosh View Post
    I think this is truly fantastic that PE created this emultion to coat paper with, but everyone still has to continue to support Michael and Paula for creating the real replacement for AZO still.
    Nobody "has to continue to support" anybody - it's a choice that's up to each individual. I ordered two 500 sheet boxes of Lodima and give M&P all the credit in the world for having that paper made. Nobody wants to see them be successful more than me, but this doesn't make it the "real replacement for AZO" any more or less than Ron's solution or anything else that might come along. Azo is dead and buried - these new papers are something entirely different.

    I have no interest in hand coating my own paper, but I think it's pretty cool that somebody has taken the time and energy to develop a process and share it with the community here at APUG. It's nice to know that it's even possible to hand craft small batches of paper. Perhaps some enterprising soul will take it upon themselves to set up shop and begin offering various handcoated papers. The key is knowing that we have choices going into the future and that we don't have to be entirely dependent on th whims of large commercial manufacturers for materials.
    Scott Killian
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  2. #12
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by juan View Post
    Do you see the 3-D effect in Ron's emulsion that we could get in Azo? My Azo prints mock my efforts on other papers.
    I believe so jaun, on the baryta base. Less so on the other two bases.

    Nobody "has to continue to support" anybody - it's a choice that's up to each individual. I ordered two 500 sheet boxes of Lodima and give M&P all the credit in the world for having that paper made. Nobody wants to see them be successful more than me, but this doesn't make it the "real replacement for AZO" any more or less than Ron's solution or anything else that might come along. Azo is dead and buried - these new papers are something entirely different.
    Pretty much my feelings too. The crying shame is that none of those deep-pocketed bizillionaires have any interest in this to support it. I know Michael Smith probably worked his guts out trying to get such support, but "those people" (quoting Robert E. Lee) would much rather throw a billion at a politician than a couple million on the likes of us. Must be something about the rate of return.
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
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  3. #13
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Thanks for the interesting report, Alex! I think one of the most interesting things about Ron's emulsions is the possibility of coating them on a variety of surfaces and bases, aside from the feeling of independence one gets from not having to depend on the big manufacturers.
    Last edited by David A. Goldfarb; 12-16-2006 at 11:39 AM. Click to view previous post history.
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  4. #14
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    Guys;

    I have no intention of personally commercializing this product. If others want to, they may. I am not in competition with M&P in any way.

    Michaels results have been posted here and elsewhere. He is not there yet after a year or so of work according to the way I read it. I believe that he is getting results several stops faster than Azo (at its original speed???) and very much higher in contrast. That is as I remember his comments.

    There are other samples out there that may be reported here, and I will be making more for a few more people who have shown interest. I am no longer accepting requests though due to the workload. This took about 2 weeks just about full time to do. (I can go faster, but I tried to do it right, I can do it better, but I went faster than I probably should have even though this was a moderately slow speed.) In explanation of that, Alex observed some small bubble defects in some of the coatings. I can fix that either of 2 ways. One of them is to retouch the coating at the time it is originally coated, by using a brush wetted with dilute emulsion. A dot of emulsion fixes the bubbles. It slows me down even more.

    PE

  5. #15
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    I wanted to put this into its own reply.

    Many many thanks to Alex for his work on this. He has given an objective evaluation that he had to put a lot of effort into. This is what makes APUG great as well, the cooperative effort to make things better in the world of analog photography.

    My appreciation to Alex for his devotion to the art of analog photography and to the spirit of cooperation.

    Ron Mowrey

  6. #16
    dwross's Avatar
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    re: bubbles in the emulsion. The problem is the surfactant in Ron's recipe. It is easily fixed by using PhotoFlo 600 (ethylene glycol (107-21-1), Octylphenoxypolyethoxyethanol). Absolutely foolproof. This is probably the unspecified second way Ron mentioned above, because it was included in my pepper-proof that I shared with him.

  7. #17
    Alex Hawley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    Thanks for the interesting report, Alex! I think one of the most interesting things about Ron's emulsions is the possibility of coating them on a variety of surfaces and bases, aside from the feeling of independence one gets from not having to depend on the big manufacturers.
    That's quite the case David. Another alternative would be to produce the emulsion in a bottled liquid form, ala Liquid Emulsion. That would make coating more viable for me and I suspect many others.
    Last edited by Alex Hawley; 12-16-2006 at 02:38 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Semper Fi & God Bless America
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwross View Post
    re: bubbles in the emulsion. The problem is the surfactant in Ron's recipe. It is easily fixed by using PhotoFlo 600 (ethylene glycol (107-21-1), Octylphenoxypolyethoxyethanol). Absolutely foolproof. This is probably the unspecified second way Ron mentioned above, because it was included in my pepper-proof that I shared with him.
    Denise;

    Yours would be a third way then. Sorry. I didn't want to mention that here.

    I use Photo Flo 200 for a specific reason. The ratios of the ingredients in Photo Flo 200 and 600 differ.

    I have another way that is working, but not fully developed right now. When ready, I will discuss it. It still gives some repellancy spots though, so I don't have the ingredients fully adjusted.

    There are several others waiting in the wings if this does not pan out though, so .... Keep tuned to this station.

    PE

  9. #19
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    My estimated cost for 1 kg of the soft emulsion is about $100. It will coat about 90 sheets of 8x10. I'm still costing it out though. It keeps for at least 6 months in the refrigerator, but should not be melted over and over so it should be divided up into working batches of about 100 g. The user will have to add the surfactant and hardener of choice to the final mixture.

    That is what I have been able to come up with as a first cut. IDK who would be interested in buying the emulsion though. Its much more fun to make it from scratch.

    PE

  10. #20
    John Bartley's Avatar
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    Ron,

    These threads of yours are very interesting to me. Many thanks to you and now to Alex also for following up on your research and more importantly for sharing it with us !!

    cheers

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