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  1. #21

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    I am confused...as you told us to imagine it being commercially produced? how easy will this be to achieve? Is it coating formulas, or prepackaged coating? Or is it actual paper with the coating? Thanks.

  2. #22
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    Scott;

    For the purposes of seeing if this concept has any use at all, I cannot judge it based on rejection because it is not commercially produced or producable. I want an answer as to the utility of the concept. I never said I would produce it, I said I would like to take production out of the equation by imagining it is commercially feasible. Then you can get past the making and coating by hand problem and just judge the idea on its merits.

    That is a concept often used in R&D to test new theoretical products. If we were to find a huge huge market for such a product, I'll bet M&P would perk their ears up, but if no one is interested, then they nor would anyone show interest. Therefore we test things by imagining or hypothesizing scenarios.

    I'm not going to even develop a hand coating method if no one is interested in the concept at all. You see?

    You have to daydream sometimes to come up with novel things. There were about 2000 researchers in KRL. Not all of them were 'inventors'. Many were great doers or thinkers. One of the foremost inventors was Grant Haist. Others include Howard James, C E K Mees, Bunny Hanson, Paul Vittum and Paul Gilman to name a few. So, stretch your imagination. Imagine this idea is a product (it is not nor are plans to make it there). Then ask yourself "could I use it?" and then give an answer based on imagination.

    In a sense, I'm sharing an Idea Memorandum with all on APUG. (see my post on patents). If it falls flat it is done but if there is interest, it will go on to become an "Invention Report". Even then, it may only be something I teach to my students, and not something ever ever manufactured.

    PE

  3. #23

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    Ok, assuming it is a gelatin I use to coat, yes, I would use it. Thanks.

  4. #24

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    me too

  5. #25

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    One one hand, I'd kill for something like a grade 1-4 VC Azo. Proper split-filter printing would be nearly limitless...it would be orgasmic, really.

    On the other hand, the light sources are a terrible pain in the ass.

  6. #26
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    Well, the light source problems for Azo was one of my concerns but it seems you are the only one to bring it up.

    Azo is mostly UV sensitive, and many people use UV printing. I would use blue/green filtration which would require tungsten light printing.

    I have produced a green sensitive Azo paper, BTW. So, it is feasible.

    PE

  7. #27
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    A product like that would make me very happy. Azo made some damn nice enargements also. (6000W light source)
    Richard

    Why are there no speaker jacks on a stereo camera?

  8. #28

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    Ron, taking your hypotherical aproach, there would be very few people who would say 'no'. So I think it would be safe to say that your thought experiment would return a positive result.

    I can also imagine a world in which Lodima would buy this hypothetical paper, re-brand it and call their venture a succcess.

    But then, I'm crazy like that.

    -R

  9. #29
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    Reggie;

    The raw emulsion I'm making now keeps 1 year in a refrigerator, and the emulsion is repeatable with 4 batches now on hand with the same sensitometric results. I can make 4 grades and the coated paper keeps at least 1 year. I can make it in batches of about 1/2 kg and I have about 2 kg on hand in the fridge right now.

    I had not run any of these tests originally, but now I feel confident that it can be produced commercially. I was when I started, but I had no proof!

    This has taken over 2 years and lots of work. To make a variable contrast paper will require much the same doing hand coatings. To date, I have yet to see anyone willing to buy the stuff and Kodak was going broke manufacturing it in a high-tech facility.

    What do you think are the chances of making this at a reasonable price with a profit?

    I think it can be done, but it will take time. I am only one person. I don't expect to begin serious work on this for some time.

    Right now, I can sell hand made sheets but you would not want to pay the price it costs me to make it. In some sort of good facility the price would go down rapidly. I have given out two samples of the graded paper. Alex has posted his results here on APUG.

    PE

  10. #30

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    Now you are moving from hypothetical to the real world in just a few posts! Now that we're talking reality, I don't think there is ANY market for a hand-coated AZO VC paper and if I were you I would not spend another dime trying to make it for anyone except a few friends. I think there would be a market if it were commercially produced and it was a good product (coating is consistent, no huge batch-to-batch fluctuations, etc.).
    I personally think AZO printers like graded paper the most, that is what they are used to. They won't want to buy a new light source just to print on VC which they don't want anyway. There will always be the 10% that do want it, but I would not be one of them.

    Maybe Lodima would be interested in buying the formula or cutting you in or making you a partner if the emulsion is that good? That would be the fastest way to turn it into a commercial product. They could make their graded paper and you could get them to produce and label the VC version. You should figure out how to make LED light heads, too, in order to stimulate paper sales.

    Just my .02.

    -R

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