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  1. #241

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Something we are about to experiment with at work for cutting 0.125mm polyester is a chemical etched tool. This might be suitable for small scale perforation punching and would be cheaper than a traditional male and female die set and probably cheaper than a steel rule die.

    *POP*

    Laser cutter - probably fiddly to set up, but would be quite simple once you got going. (For hobbyist quantities, that is)

    */pop*

  2. #242
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Orange View Post
    Laser cutter - probably fiddly to set up, but would be quite simple once you got going. (For hobbyist quantities, that is)
    Except that it would fog the film!


    Steve.

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    For myself, if I were coating I would likely be targeting 120 size. Then the issue becomes a stable backing paper which doesn't interact with the film instead of how to punch holes.

    For what is likely not going to be as good as Plus-X or FP4, I suspect a homemade emulsion would benefit greatly from the larger negative size.

    Stable, chemically inert backing paper isn't so easy, however. About the cheapest I ever saw was the stuff on the Shanghai GP3 Chinese film. It seemed almost like children's construction paper. Then you have to print numbers which are chemically inert.

    None of this is impossible, but it sure isn't trivial.
    I agree, but why would you NEED to print numbers? In any case, the film sleeving etc we have here for uncut film up to 120 and also bigger sleeving for rolled large prints is outsourced to a local plastics company, you could get such things (backing paper) by local industry, with frame numbers.

    The issue I see there is cutting the paper in the right place and attaching the film. And if there would be a feasible way to have the process of 120 somewhat semi-automated instead of one roll at a time by hand.



    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Except that it would fog the film!


    Steve.
    A laser is a collimated conherent beam, cutting would be done perpendicular. It would need a lot of particles to scatter off (such as steam or fog )
    Last edited by Athiril; 11-08-2012 at 05:24 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #244
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
    A laser is a collimated conherent beam, cutting would be done perpendicular. It would need a lot of particles to scatter off
    I'm sure that if I tried to cut film on our laser (assuming I could put it in a dark room) it would fog it. There is a lot of light reflecting off of the substrate being cut and lots of flat panels to reflect it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
    such as steam or fog
    Or smoke?!


    Steve.

  5. #245
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    If you can see a laser from the side, it is being scattered. If you can see it, be sure to put your goggles on!

    Even if it worked, such as by using a far IR laser, the melted support may be a problem.

    PE

  6. #246
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Making a male female gear couples or laser are fantasy. Best way is to use printing press house expertise. Rotogravure printing press houses print their subject on everykind of thick paper or plastic. These papers or plastics layups as hundreds of sheets at the end of the press machine. They have to cut and folded at too many applications at binding houses.

    An expert binder get ordered with a computer output cutting pattern. Every binder have a man who prepares cutting patterns with folding thin sheets of steel and nail one end of these folded steel on to wooden board and other end sharp and free.

    When you put this board on to papers or plastics and press from the top , folded steel cuts the thick several hundreds of papers like an butter.

    And these guys are busy and get many orders per day. And they are cheap.

    May be best way is to cut 1 meter long polyester bases for 35mm film and lay a 100 meters long film as 100*1 meter lay up and get cut at binder house for sprockets. And after all coat these sheets. No dark is needed , you can clean the cut pieces by hand .

    Umut

  7. #247
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Making a male female gear couples or laser are fantasy.
    How can it be fantasy when such things exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    An expert binder get ordered with a computer output cutting pattern. Every binder have a man who prepares cutting patterns with folding thin sheets of steel and nail one end of these folded steel on to wooden board and other end sharp and free.

    When you put this board on to papers or plastics and press from the top , folded steel cuts the thick several hundreds of papers like an butter.
    I think you are trying to describe a steel rule die. It's a bit more accurate than you are making out. The base is laser cut and the cutting die is inserted into it.

    We use them to cut polyester and polycarbonate.

    http://escutters.co.uk/


    Steve.

  8. #248
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    When you aim to things you can not afford , its fantasy. Do you know the cost of cutting four gear from steel , align at a base and rotate them when you are feeding the film with many other gear train. Its hell of money. Its like you wanted to buy a mini , it is expensive and you want to build SAME !!! factory to own a mini.
    Last edited by Mustafa Umut Sarac; 11-09-2012 at 08:19 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #249

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    People were mentioning backing paper numbers on 120. Surely 220 only has leader/footer paper at the ends - so why not for 120v2 as well, and using a camera without a red-window of course. This is all a bit of an academic exercise though, for general use at least.

  10. #250
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    The reality is that punching perforations in the film and finding suitable backing paper are fairly trivial things when compared with making and coating the emulsion.

    I think the trick is to use people's skills. One person on his or her own might struggle to do it all but a few people with different skills might do it.

    e.g. I am interested in emulsion making but will probably never do it myself. However, I'm sure that I could make a coating machine and a simple jig to cut perforations if someone else wants to coat the film.

    EDIT: That wasn't an offer to do it, just a hypothetical scenario!


    Steve.



 

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