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  1. #241
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Orange View Post
    Laser cutter - probably fiddly to set up, but would be quite simple once you got going. (For hobbyist quantities, that is)
    Except that it would fog the film!


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  2. #242
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by michaelbsc View Post
    For myself, if I were coating I would likely be targeting 120 size. Then the issue becomes a stable backing paper which doesn't interact with the film instead of how to punch holes.

    For what is likely not going to be as good as Plus-X or FP4, I suspect a homemade emulsion would benefit greatly from the larger negative size.

    Stable, chemically inert backing paper isn't so easy, however. About the cheapest I ever saw was the stuff on the Shanghai GP3 Chinese film. It seemed almost like children's construction paper. Then you have to print numbers which are chemically inert.

    None of this is impossible, but it sure isn't trivial.
    I agree, but why would you NEED to print numbers? In any case, the film sleeving etc we have here for uncut film up to 120 and also bigger sleeving for rolled large prints is outsourced to a local plastics company, you could get such things (backing paper) by local industry, with frame numbers.

    The issue I see there is cutting the paper in the right place and attaching the film. And if there would be a feasible way to have the process of 120 somewhat semi-automated instead of one roll at a time by hand.



    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Except that it would fog the film!


    Steve.
    A laser is a collimated conherent beam, cutting would be done perpendicular. It would need a lot of particles to scatter off (such as steam or fog )
    Last edited by Athiril; 11-08-2012 at 05:24 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #243
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
    A laser is a collimated conherent beam, cutting would be done perpendicular. It would need a lot of particles to scatter off
    I'm sure that if I tried to cut film on our laser (assuming I could put it in a dark room) it would fog it. There is a lot of light reflecting off of the substrate being cut and lots of flat panels to reflect it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
    such as steam or fog
    Or smoke?!


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  4. #244
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    If you can see a laser from the side, it is being scattered. If you can see it, be sure to put your goggles on!

    Even if it worked, such as by using a far IR laser, the melted support may be a problem.

    PE

  5. #245
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Making a male female gear couples or laser are fantasy.
    How can it be fantasy when such things exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    An expert binder get ordered with a computer output cutting pattern. Every binder have a man who prepares cutting patterns with folding thin sheets of steel and nail one end of these folded steel on to wooden board and other end sharp and free.

    When you put this board on to papers or plastics and press from the top , folded steel cuts the thick several hundreds of papers like an butter.
    I think you are trying to describe a steel rule die. It's a bit more accurate than you are making out. The base is laser cut and the cutting die is inserted into it.

    We use them to cut polyester and polycarbonate.

    http://escutters.co.uk/


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  6. #246

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    People were mentioning backing paper numbers on 120. Surely 220 only has leader/footer paper at the ends - so why not for 120v2 as well, and using a camera without a red-window of course. This is all a bit of an academic exercise though, for general use at least.

  7. #247
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    The reality is that punching perforations in the film and finding suitable backing paper are fairly trivial things when compared with making and coating the emulsion.

    I think the trick is to use people's skills. One person on his or her own might struggle to do it all but a few people with different skills might do it.

    e.g. I am interested in emulsion making but will probably never do it myself. However, I'm sure that I could make a coating machine and a simple jig to cut perforations if someone else wants to coat the film.

    EDIT: That wasn't an offer to do it, just a hypothetical scenario!


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  8. #248
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    When you aim to things you can not afford , its fantasy. Do you know the cost of cutting four gear from steel , align at a base and rotate them when you are feeding the film with many other gear train. Its hell of money
    Indeed. The owner of a company I used to work for would tell his customers "you can have anything you like, whenever you want it as long as you can afford it".

    I wouldn't expect a small scale home emulsion coater to buy the parts for a rotary die cutter. I would do it with a miniature version of a paper hole punch with pins to register the cut to the previous cut holes. This would be very easy to set up.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  9. #249
    michaelbsc's Avatar
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    Film coating machine (homemade) on Flickr

    Quote Originally Posted by Athiril View Post
    I agree, but why would you NEED to print numbers? ...
    My RB67, P6 TL, and several TLRs do index the film without numbers.

    But the folders and box cameras all have a window.

    And I *LIKE* my Mother's Brownie Hawkeye.

    I do agree that sheet film is a lot easier. And even at the width of 120 I have a bunch of 2.35x3.25 holders.

    Plus i have a stash (No! It's not a hoard!) of glass window panes. So I too would probably try very little roll film.

    When I think about the possibility of home manufacturer I invariably think small scale, dozens instead of thousands. The investment to make occasional new backing paper seems trivial compared to a perforating machine. Unless you can get or fabricate the perfing machine vey inexpensively.

    For a small manufacturing operation, say 5K rolls of film, a usable perfing machine begins to make sense. And you could sell the film packed in a wrapper for the user to spool. Eschewing the cassettes.

    I have some oddball FSU film in my freezer which is packed this way. It's just a strip of perforated 35mm film. The user had to load it in a cassette.

    Some of the old Contax cameras had a refillable cassette.

    MB
    Last edited by michaelbsc; 11-09-2012 at 11:33 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  10. #250
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    Film coating machine (homemade) on Flickr

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Indeed. The owner of a company I used to work for would tell his customers "you can have anything you like, whenever you want it as long as you can afford it".
    I used to work for his metaphysical twin in a metrology laboratory. In metrology each extra zero at the right of the decimal costs geometrically more money.

    Occasionally someone would complain if we calibrated something to one or two decimal places. Wes would tell them just bring it back and they could get as many zeros as they could pay for.

    MB
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.



 

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