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  1. #41
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Scanning Electron Micrographs of the emulsion
    X ray Diffraction and EDS data analysis for elements present
    Vapor Phase Chromatography
    Ron , if it takes thousands in USA , it takes hundreds at China !
    Can you learn who can do these research at China or is there anyone who knows China ?

    Best ,

    Mustafa Umut Sarac

  2. #42
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    I've posted my take on the Type 55/Pan-X connection here--

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum172/...tml#post593173

    Out of curiosity, have you asked Grant Haist if he's thought any more about this since writing The Monobath Manual?
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  3. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I have this from authoritative sources that Kodak did not develop any emulsions for Dr. Land. We did R&D for Polaroid, but in all cases either the emulsions were from Polaroid, or we did R&D with our emulsions and using their proposed variations on format and formula and gave them the generic "answers" without Kodak knowing or producing the emulsion formulas.

    In no case did Land use a Kodak formula nor did he have one according to excellent sources.

    PE
    Some of the difference in our POVs here may be semantics.
    Kodak may have supplied the material itself not the formulas.

    I should point out I concur with many of Ron's points above.
    I imagine agreements came and went and Polaroid did its best to be self-sufficient.

    But it is entirly possible that they would have been commercially unsuccessful without Kodak's extensive help.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Scanning Electron Micrographs of the emulsion
    X ray Diffraction and EDS data analysis for elements present
    Vapor Phase Chromatography
    Ron , if it takes thousands in USA , it takes hundreds at China !
    Can you learn who can do these research at China or is there anyone who knows China ?

    Best ,

    Mustafa Umut Sarac
    I know several Chinese researchers

  5. #45
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Ray Rogers ,

    Who are they ? How can ı contact with them ?

  6. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    ...
    For analysis, you need Scanning Electron Micrographs of the emulsion, along with X ray Diffraction and EDS data analysis for elements present. Even so, such work would miss Iridium, Osmium, Rhodium and probably Mercury, Cadmium?, and Sulfur + Gold levels. It would also miss any organic stabilzers and sensitizing dyes unless extremely precise Vapor Phase Chromatography or suchlike were done. An analysis could take several thousand dollars and weeks of my time analyzing the data.
    ...
    You could use conventional film as Land did and formulate a single use goo. Then you could process in the dark using a paper you coated with a Carey Lea silver colloid.

    PE
    I agree.

    I think the analyses of photographic material are over-rated.
    Usually there are more than one way of doing things and there is little need to exactly replicate the process...
    much more important is the behaviour.

  7. #47
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    I wrote to Intertek. They have labs all over the world.
    I think keeping the analysis at your hand is good subject for DIY book.
    Ron , I will ask you more on the subject after first recontact with them.

  8. #48

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    Lucky and The Chinese Academy of Sciences

    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Ray Rogers ,

    Who are they ? How can ı contact with them ?
    For general information on a public forum, all I can say is that most researchers publish their work. You can find out who has done what by watching the professional publications of universities and professional organizations. There are also professional laboratories that will undertake research but I would not go that way unless they had had extensive experience with photographic material.

    I must say that I have not read your posts carefully yet and have only just briefly glanced at this thread, so I do not really know what it is you want to do, nor why.

    Under these conditions I can do little more than to ask you to PM me with more info.

  9. #49
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Mustafa;

    I could probably make a "Polaroid" using a conventional commercially available film and a published monobath. I could not really duplicate the colloidal silver and reciever sheet well, as it is too complex. If you wish me to stop work on R&D on easy emulsions and on the book, then I might be able to do this, but you must realize that I've got a lot going on here and really have no interest in a "dead" product like this. I've developed a functional Azo paper when people are crying for Azo and no one has really beaten a path to my door. The workshops are underbooked and the interest is generally low notwithstanding the response on APUG.

    In point of fact, film production at Kodak is still gently ratcheting downward a bit at a time every month. This is due to gradually lowering sales. It is really a very sad situation. And, I want to complete the job of making a handful of useful easy B&W emulsions for the home emulsion maker.

    PE

  10. #50
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    This is becoming a rehash of the thread David refers to above. The emulsion is obviously derived somehow from a Kodak product, and Land probably reverse engineered it. His people were very good about these things as they had to start from scratch.

    Even if you contact the Chinese, you have to know what to look for and you have to interpret the results. The analyses must be sensitive to values lower than 10^-6 moles / mole of silver or 1 mg / mole of silver. Those are tiny amounts when you consider how accurate you must be, or how large a sample you must use.

    PE



 

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