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  1. #41
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Athiril;

    My head has a hole in it. I was up until 1AM editing the book, printing and reviewing the DVDs. Maybe you can explain your last post. I'm kinda whacked this AM.

    Sorry.

    PE
    You're not familiar with this song?


    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Guys;

    Lets do this again. The cost to ME is about $25 B&W and $100 Color in small quantities. The cost to you would be more than that just so that I can break even. I spent $50 today on paper just to print copies for editing. And, some people will not buy the DVDs or vice versa, so that there is material repeated in both the book and the DVDs.

    The cost would go down if I ordered more. But then I am speculating that I can sell the larger quantity. So, in a hypothetical scenario, I can get up to 100 books for $100 each in color or go to a shop and get 1000 books for about $50 each. Either way that is a LOT of money to invest so I am looking at all aspects of this to cut costs for all of us.

    PE
    Perhaps make the DVD compulsory/standard?

    Seeing as your method as stated in another post is print-on-demand like with the numerous online publishing services do, or where ever you get it from, you should also offer the colour version as well, since it's all print-on-demand, right?



    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Unfortunately, I priced out having my editing copies today. In B&W only it will run about $25 each without binding and up to $100 each in color. When I have the larger run made, this same type of price differential will apply!

    So, here is a question..... How important is color to you all? Is it worth up to 4x in price no matter what the price is?

    PE

    How big is your book that it would cost $100 for print-on-demand for colour??

    I assume the $100 price is based around the 400-500 page mark? ~21x27cm, hard cover and colour?


    I'd pay $180-$220 for such a book. I'm not sure how many others would feel the same.

  2. #42
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    It is $0.11 / page in B&W and $0.59 / page in Color. Any color on a page is considered a color page. There are 244 pages in the main body of the book + cover + copyright page + ending pages. This brings it to about 250 pages. This brings it to $27.50 for all B&W and $147.50 for all color. Not all figures are color. The estimate right now for the average of 215 figures and graphs with about 1/2 in color is $100. The page size is 8.5 x 11. It is $4.00 / copy for binding. That is the cost to me.

    At present, I am obligated to about 10 free copies which is inevitable. The Library of Congress wants one to register it, just as an example.

    And I am familiar with that old song about my bucket. I am trying to apply it to this situation. I have failed somehow.

    Now, an intermediary offers POD at a reduced price but also at a huge profit for them, but not much for me. I am still looking at this. As for the DVDs, everyone so far has suggested that the DVDs be optional, up to this point.

    PE

  3. #43
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    OK-That`s it for me. I will now finish washing my rubber-like emulsion, leave it to soak overnight, and say 'Good Night'.
    Bill

  4. #44
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    It is $0.11 / page in B&W and $0.59 / page in Color. Any color on a page is considered a color page. There are 244 pages in the main body of the book + cover + copyright page + ending pages. This brings it to about 250 pages. This brings it to $27.50 for all B&W and $147.50 for all color. Not all figures are color. The estimate right now for the average of 215 figures and graphs with about 1/2 in color is $100. The page size is 8.5 x 11. It is $4.00 / copy for binding. That is the cost to me.

    At present, I am obligated to about 10 free copies which is inevitable. The Library of Congress wants one to register it, just as an example.

    And I am familiar with that old song about my bucket. I am trying to apply it to this situation. I have failed somehow.

    Now, an intermediary offers POD at a reduced price but also at a huge profit for them, but not much for me. I am still looking at this. As for the DVDs, everyone so far has suggested that the DVDs be optional, up to this point.

    PE
    Oh well, the proofreadnig +1 to edition number, then proofreading that edition again and so forth seems to be a repeating loop..

    lulu puts a 250 page, hardcover for 8.25x10.25" at $21.25 per unit at a quantity of a single book, but $64 for colour.

    The colour price is quite good, it allows plenty of room for pricing into profit, (you get 80% iirc).

  5. #45
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    I'm looking at LuLu! Thanks.

    PE

  6. #46
    Athiril's Avatar
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    They can do your ISBN too for you if needed. But you dont have to get your B&W and Colour from the same place, single unit on demand printing is good for the couple of those who'd want the colour version, since it costs nothing to actually host/make it available.

  7. #47

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    I think we need to keep in mind that
    the book is not a showcase of fine photography;
    it wll in most likelyhood be, hummm, a cookbook,
    for the advanced artist/photographer.

    If the photography was well done, color would,
    for the most part, be unnecessary.

    I have a self published book about dry plates which includes a CD (orDVD) with all the color mages.

    I don't know how much value being able to see the tone of the photographs would be....

    I would prefer a preorder special where a series of emulsions were produced... actual samples being included in the book; they could be included as an appendix.

    I know the idea of using real photographs has been discounted by PE before;
    This is just a reminder.

    4x the cost of a b/w book is really wasteful IMHO.

    The DVD should suffice.

    That said, I like color and understand it may actually be necessary for some pictures;
    Shanebrooks book for example, would have been much worse had it been in B/W.

    I am not really thrilled with the color/printing quality of that book however.
    My favorite low volume book of this sort is black and white with a color cover.

    Execllent information
    low cost and no frills.

    On the otherhand,
    A downloadable book is nice too...
    if the absence of being printed, bound and mailed is reflected in the price.

    I have several of these and they are good.
    In addition, they can be printed in whole or in part
    according to the desire of the individual,
    some may opt to be more (? no judgement here) ecofriendly.

    My own opinion is that a simple, clear, high quality hard copy,
    at low cost, with or without color, is ideal.

    Those of us here who are active will buy the book at any crazy price...
    the larger % of sales however, will come from the less passionate and for them,
    price will be an issue... any thing over 100 USD is for the truely passionate.

    Or bloody rich.
    Last edited by Ray Rogers; 11-14-2010 at 06:43 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #48
    Athiril's Avatar
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    Over 100USD is a normal price.

    Consider any reasonably new good book on optics, software or game programming, or other technical subjects, even just photography as a subject itself in many cases are over $100 USD for publisher-backed books from Amazon even, and this is with competing products/books/information as well.

    Given print on demand, people would be able to order a b&w or colour book to their preference without printed copies having to sit around before demand. It also allows constant availability. I'm not so sure a downloadable version would be a great idea, but that's another argument altogether.



    At a print cost of $64 (colour), I think a sale price of ~$130 would be very reasonable taking things into consideration, and consider what you're actually getting for your money. Information that you wouldn't be able to derive yourself without dedicating 10+ years to the subject, along with tens of thousands of dollars to do so or more, but you get this in such a short time frame, for very little cost.


    This isn't a run-of-the-mill $40-$50 book.

  9. #49

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    Are you one of the chosen ones who have seen the book?
    It may be a bit early early to pass judgement.

    Sure, for a complete newbie who wants to get involved, it MIGHT be worth it.
    but after all is said and done, the information, as I understand it, is the authors, not Kodak's,
    for the most part, worked out at home over the last few years.
    It needs to be valued accordingly.

    You might be overrating things a tiny bit.
    Basic information is easy to find if you simply want to get your fingers wet.

    I don't know who buys such expensive books routienly,
    but I must say thanks to the person who had the sense to envision a world with Public and University Librarys.

    That is the only way for some to know books such as Haist.

    I personally don't see the numbers adding up with a high sell price;
    books on optics, programming, or other technical subjects have a wider audience, plus those are often cutting edge technology...
    this presumably, is not.

    I think 40-50 USD is not that far off.

  10. #50
    AgX
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    Ray, the information the industry could give us would meanwhile be based on the laboratory standard employed and neccessary in the plants.
    To my understanding PE is offering something digested and proven to be doable in high-end home labs.



 

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