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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by John Shriver View Post
    Ah, I recognize that "beveling". That's US Patent 1,900,879, issued to John G. Jones on March 7, 1933, assigned to Eastman Kodak. It describes the edge of the paper as having been "stretched". It was deliberately strained when cutting, to make the edge of the paper "frill", and be thus "longer" than the center of the paper. This made it curve up and push against the edge the spool when spooled, making for a more light-tight seal at that point.

    The patent number is on one end flap of older Kodak roll-film boxes.
    Thank you John!

    That is the kind of "proof" I was looking for to convince me that common sense needed to be put aside! (Even the author of that patent notes the difficulty in showing the way it looks) Looking at his drawings, I would still object! but the text does describe this film characteristic so I concede. Now, back to choosing the best word to describe this... beveled or bevelled may not be the best here... anyway, thanks to everyone who stuck it out this far and esp. thanks to AgX who never gave up!

    It is nice to learn something new... I will have to read those patents carefully, but it seems PE (and my very very vague memory) were not wrong in essence even if they were fuzzy in detail.

    Ray
    Be free of all deception, Be safe from bodily harm
    Love without exception, Be a saint in any form
    (Patti Smith)

  2. #122
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    What I've been saying!!!!!!

    PE

  3. #123

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    What I've been saying!!!!!!

    PE
    Yes. Indeed! Sort of...

    But it is really John Shriver who said it most clearly and deserves our appreciation.

    Anyway, I am not one to split hairs unnecessarily!

    You were right in essence and that is good enough for me.
    Last edited by Ray Rogers; 02-09-2009 at 11:07 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #124
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    I did not know the patent #, but I did remember that the paper was treated to be oversize. And John did say it unambiguously. So, thanks John.

    PE

  5. #125

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    The rest of the story...

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I did remember that the paper was treated to be oversize.
    Some example dimentions given by Jones:

    Backing paper width greater than flange span: 0.508 - 1.27 mm
    Backing paper width: 88.90 mm
    same + .03mm extra for expansion due to humidity: 88.93 mm

    Width of margins: 0.508 - 3.302 mm
    Thinness of margins: 0.0381 - 0.0762 mm

    However, Jones, way back in 1923 wrote:
    "I have discovered that it is possible to so construct the backing paper that its effective width as it is being spooled is not greater than the distance between the end flanges, but when subject to the pressure of the tight winding on the spool, it will expand laterally and the edges will be forced tightly against the inner edges of the flange, forming light tight seals."
    USP 1,454,817 (1923) Jones. J.G.

    So while he referrs to oversize paper, it looks like his invention is actually a way to get around using it!

    I hesitate to continue since we have found sufficient data to verify the translation, perhaps we can continue in private?

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