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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kershaw View Post
    At one point from what I could discern, the narrator seems to mention radioactivity, but I'm not sure where or if radioactivity would come into the film manufacturing process.

    Tom.
    I believe that would be air quality control... as a counter measure against atomic testing or whatever - radioactivity in the vicinity of sensitized materials is not good and could be very costly... I wonder if PE has any stories or further info about this.
    It seems that paper base too might somehow become impregnated with tiny radioactive material... which causes much head scratching in the absence of any testing.
    Last edited by Ray Rogers; 02-03-2009 at 09:19 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #22
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Hi guys, I am Dutch too, but wouldn't it be far easier if PE or someone else with (former) contacts within Kodak asked Kodak if they can dig this film up from their archive???

    Since all the illustrations and text are in English, the film must originally have been made in the US. I guess someone within Kodak or at the George Eastman house must be able to dig it up, especially if they have this Dutch track / film as an example...

    The voice is of our classic Polygoon news agency narrator, Philip Bloemendaal, who did this kind of narration for nearly forty years, from 1946 to 1986, the 1958 copyright notion is also in accordance with that.

    The Polygoon news was initially started in 1918 as film news in film theatres. As there was no television at the time, this was one of the few sources of news (at least in moving images format), and as such remained important until the dawn of television in the 1940's and '50's.

    And if we really want "home-made" narration, maybe Keith (Keithwms) can step in, he knows Dutch as well due to having lived here for a few years, but instead of having some horrible "Dutch-English" narration , he should be able to do it in proper English.

    And as PE stated, the moment the Silver Nitrate is mixed, the Dutch narration mentiones that from that moment on, the lights should be out, but that they didn't of course show that because it would be a bit difficult...

    Another nice thing was that they also mention testing for possible contaminants that may spoil the film (mercury, silicons from clothing AND radioactive particles!, well, we sure were in the middle of the cold war with aboveground atomic blast going off about every day :o)
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  3. #23
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    That looked like it was originally 16mm and converted by telecine. Even if Kodak has an English language copy in their archives, I wouldn't expect a digital conversion any time soon.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  4. #24
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    The Agfa animation of slide coating is pretty interesting. It has been posted here on APUG, but I have been unable to locate the video again.

    Radioactivity has indeed been a problem for Kodak. All buildings include a foot bath for shoes to wash off contaminants, and all lab workers have to change into clothing supplied by EK and laundered by their approved facility. We even have to use EK approved ink and pens. Some inks contaminate emulsions.

    The "pink cool aid" looks like the Rhodium Chloride solution used to adjust emulsion speed and contrast among other things. But, I did not catch them saying anything in particular there. My German is fading, but between it and English, I got a fair amount of the narration just by knowing what was going on.

    I firmly believe that this film was probably made at least 10 years earlier than the copyright date, due to the equipment in use. The stuff I saw in 1965, just 7 years later, was so so different, it would have taken major expenditures to update it all in that short of a time. We had modern control rooms, slide hoppers and pumped computerized making in paper manufacturing at that time. Forklifts run by computer ran on guided paths in the dark and the cold to pick up batches of chemicals in bakelite tubs and then computers automatically mixed them.

    Gelatin was rapidly melted in tubs by inserting steam filled rods into the container and the gel just liquified almost instantaneously. That is one of the things that impressed me. Seeing how fast gelatin could be melted. That was one of the things they showed us in the light.

    And, watching them begin a production run at slow speed, and then watching and then hearing (it went dark) the machine get up to full speed and knowing that this huge master roll was winding out in back of you and winding up coated in front of you was pretty amazing.

    The fork lifts removing master rolls had to move fast to get the old one off and get a new core onto the pillow blocks to allow a smooth transition before running out the slack in the line. All of this was like a ballet. I too wish they could show it all. I doubt if they ever will.

    I think what they did show was frozen at the level that was captured by the Germans during WWII actualy. It reminds me a bit of what I have seen of those old plants.

    PE

  5. #25
    MikeSeb's Avatar
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    It is fascinating to contemplate how things could be actually made, with such precision, in such quantities. I have had a long fascination with industrial-scale undertakings like this. Elegant and beautiful.
    Michael Sebastian
    Website | Blog

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    The Agfa animation of slide coating is pretty interesting. It has been posted here on APUG, but I have been unable to locate the video again.
    I would love to see that one... anyone know where it is?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    I firmly believe that this film was probably made at least 10 years earlier than the copyright date, due to the equipment in use.PE
    Well, I am half guessing that that windup ticket is dated 6/3/47

  7. #27

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    thanks for this i love these old clips...
    i assume this was made for the southern states of america as his accent was difficult to understand.
    as my old gran would say..
    danke,
    Alle mensen worden vrij en gelijk in waardigheid en rechten geboren. Zij zijn begiftigd met verstand en geweten, en behoren zich jegens elkander in een geest van broederschap te gedragen.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb View Post
    That looked like it was originally 16mm and converted by telecine. Even if Kodak has an English language copy in their archives, I wouldn't expect a digital conversion any time soon.
    Interesting. I know of a 16 mm film about how paper is made....
    What clues are the give away that this film was a 16 mm too?

    In any case, there were a lot of educational films done on 16 mm.
    Kodak has two other interesting (to me anyway) films, one on glass blowing and one on oh I would have to go check but anyway, bell curves and distribution of varriance around the mean or something like that.

    Someone mentioned getting help finding the original at Kodak... that is probably a dead end, GEH would be likelier, but about a year ago I inquired and came up empty - but then again, not all of their collection is in the catalogues.

    I know someone who has the paper film, but I have not been able to get him to keep his promise of sharing it yet. It may be even older than this one; it is a slient 16 mm.
    Last edited by Ray Rogers; 02-03-2009 at 11:36 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
    ...What clues are the give away that this film was a 16 mm too?...
    From the "latest news" page of the site which hosts that film:

    How film is made
    The lab got a very nice present, a 16mm colour film titled; 'How film is made'. It shows how a black/white still photo film is made from the beginning to the end. You get a very good idea how even today our cine films are also produced! Don't forget the film is dated 1958. Click this page to view the 18 minute film, in Dutch language and full colour. (Depending on your internet connection it might take some time to load.) Many thanks to Ton, Rene, Andre, Nico and Erwin!
    [30 January 2009].

  10. #30

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    Thanks PE,
    I have always wondered how pasta is made!
    Regards,
    Bill:o

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