"The sides of the yellow backing paper that protects the film have been beveled"
or
"The ends of the yellow backing paper that protects the film have been beveled"
I am pretty sure that they are trying to say that the ends of the paper is tapered, rather than the sides are beveled.
OK Ray, I now completely understand what you mean with the beveled thing, and the difference between the "end" of the paper, and the "sides". I fully agree with you that the "sides" being beveled, doesn't make a lot of sense, since the paper is just a fraction of a millimetre thick. I think you are 100% right, he's talking about the end of the paper backing. So change the texts accordingly, if you can. Actually, when I heard the Dutch text the first time, I was confused, but now also looking at the screenshot below included as attachment, I think this is what is meant. Just look at the end of the paper backing: IT IS BEVELED...
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers
Well
KBr is not red.
The dry, red material being made into a solution before the emulsification is not KBr
and when they add the KBR latter on, it is not red either.
I agree we should translate it as it is, perhaps with an appropriate footnote.
However, we may need to consider the possibility that either the original (English) version or the Dutch translation is in error.
Yeh, you may be right, but I think there is not much else we can make of this particular section. I still think it might be some other chemical or additive included that may cause the color, or, as you also suggested, they just used some shot of a chemist working with bottles with liquid, to illustrate something, while not having the KBr in it.
"The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.
"I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978
"Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"
But the dutch narration definetely refers to the long sides/rebates and the film shows an arrow gliding along those sides.
It is further statet that those bevelled sides press firmly against the flanges of the spool.
Yeh, you are right about the Dutch narration and the arrow animation stuff, that still is confusing, but unless someone else steps in with a good suggestion or knowledge of how these films were produced at the time, the end being beveled is more logical.
Anyone else with a good suggestion???
And we still need someone with good video-editing experience, that could do the subtitles stuff.
"The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.
"I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978
"Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"
But the dutch narration definetely refers to the long sides/rebates and the film shows an arrow gliding along those sides.
It is further statet that those bevelled sides press firmly against the flanges of the spool.
And that is why I said I was stuck, since I know of no such animal. The film I use IS NOT like that. At first, I though they were talking about the thin black edgeing along both sides that runs the length of the film. But how functional is that!
BTW, What film is this? 120? Did someone mention 6xx film?
Actually, when I heard the Dutch text the first time, I was confused, but now also looking at the screenshot below included as attachment, I think this is what is meant. Just look at the end of the paper backing: IT IS BEVELED...
How did I miss this shot? It is right there in plain English!
If I had seen that the first time, we could have avoided all this confusion!
"Interesting that the spooling machine is spooling either 620 or 616 size film. I suppose it would be easy to tell from the pattern of frame numbering."
Ray, maybe we should solve this by sticking to the original suggestions of the sides of the film being beveled, and as you, Denise and PE suggested, add a list of remarks about confusing / conflicting aspects in the film
That list might include:
- Film type being made / spooled
- Sides or end of paper backing being beveled
- KBr not being a red solution
- Type of machinery outdated for late '50s
When Denise is going to host this on her website, these remarks might be added on the webpage as clarification / cautionary warnings.
"The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.
"I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978
"Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"
It was my understanding that the backing paper is indeed thinner (thicker? It's midnight here) at the edges, even fractionally, to improve light tightness. This is part of what makes it such a specialist thing to manufacture, and such a big part of the cost of 120 format. I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to pitch in, but a "bevel" at the edges isn't unheard of. Even if only 50 years ago.
"The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.
"I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978
"Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"
It was my understanding that the backing paper is indeed thinner (thicker? It's midnight here) at the edges, even fractionally, to improve light tightness. This is part of what makes it such a specialist thing to manufacture, and such a big part of the cost of 120 format. I'll wait for someone more knowledgeable to pitch in, but a "bevel" at the edges isn't unheard of. Even if only 50 years ago.
Ok, thanks so much for stepping in here, so the paper might indeed be beveled at the edges than, as opposed to at the end... anyone else with more confirmation of this
"The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.
"I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978
"Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"
Here are some that are red and used in film and paper....
Rhodium Chloride, Rhodium Bromide, Manganous Sulfate, and Gold Chloride.
The Gold solution would be more dilute, used in lower quantity and subtly off in color so I don't think that is it. It also could be the sensitizing dye or absorber dye, but those are usually added after the precipitatoin and just before coating.
Originally Posted by Ray Rogers
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