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  1. #21

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    And no, no one will ever know the full story AFAIK.

    PE[/QUOTE]

    Pardon me. But ,what is AFAIK?
    Bill

  2. #22
    MattKing's Avatar
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    AFAIK = "As far as I know"

    Matt

  3. #23
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    If acronyms are a challenge for other native English speakers who are not "in the know," just think of the obstacle they represent for those for whom English is a second language.
    Charles Hohenstein

  4. #24
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    There is an acronym translation facility via google. (via = by means of ) It is not an acronym but is a loan word used in English.

    Most everyone uses them here and on other sites.

    PE

  5. #25
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    [redacted]
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  6. #26
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    Keith;

    Better clarify "redacted" for some people here.

    With big apologies and no criticism intended. Just amused me.

    PE

  7. #27
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    lol

    Well sometimes my fingers work faster than my brain :rolleyes:

    In this case, 'redacted' just means that these idle musings be worth something to somebody somewhere at some time in the future I was merely speculating about ways to make use of what Kodak knows. There, now the lawyers are going to come after Ron!
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  8. #28
    Struan Gray's Avatar
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    I'm coming to this a bit late, but for those of you interested in reading research papers, and with an institutional or library subscription to the usual journal pools, I found this paper by I. Gould et al interesting and clearly-written:

    Two-Electron Sensitization: A New Concept for Silver Halide Photography
    Ian R. Gould, Jerome R. Lenhard, Annabel A. Muenter, Stephen A. Godleski, and Samir Farid
    J. Am. Chem. Soc.,122, 11934-11943 (2000)
    DOI: 10.1021/ja002274s

    Dumping the DOI into google is the fastest way to find the paper.

    I have *no* idea how Gould fits into the hiearchy of precedence when compared to internal Kodak research (perhaps P.E. can comment), but his group's paper is a useful read and is as freely available as any other bit of published research.

    The technique uses a scavenger molecule to neutralise the positively-charged sensitiser dye before it can grab its electron back from the AgX crystal. Thus far you have only suceeded in reducing reciprocity, but two electron sensitisation goes a step further by using a scavenger which fragments once it has donated an electron to the dye. The clever bit is to make one of the fragments a strong enough reducing agent that it can donate *another* electron to the AgX.

    It sounds like black magic, but it is really only a reflection of the fact that many organic molecules in solution have ionisation energies in the infra-red, so if you control where the energy goes, you can ionise two of them with a single photon of visible light.

    In general, there is a lot of fundamental research into electronic transfer between wide-band-gap crystals like AgX and organic molecules, but much of it is motivated by applications like solar cells where you don't want the dye molecule to be destroyed or rendered inactive after one absorbtion event. That cuts out the known pathways to 2-electron sensitisation, although the concept has been discussed and people would love to find a working solution - in principle it wouldn't be impossible if you could only find the right combinations of reversible reactions. "Dye sensitised solar cells" is a useful search term if you want the nitty-gritty: it turns up research in engineering, surface science, synchrotron-based research, solid-state physics, organic and physical chemistry and environmental sciences. Still a very hot topic, if not exactly photography.

  9. #29
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    Annabel is, I believe, credited with the major portion of this work within EK. I have probably met all of them at one time or another and two of them delivered the paper at the last ICPS meeting in Rochester (2006). Annabel was chairperson of the Rochester meeting and Tadeki Tani was the overall conference head. Ray Rogers from APUG was there at the presentation along with Paul Gilman who gave a talk shortly thereafter on the ISO 25,000 film.

    I should have remembered that you have to pay for this article or must be a member of the ACS.

    PE

  10. #30
    AgX
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    Struan,

    that concept of Anabel Muenter works with donors brought onto the surface of the crystal.
    That means it can only take gain out of those holes which succeeded in reaching the surface instead of having recombined, which they are believed to do quite fast.

    That was a critique then uttered on that concept.

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