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  1. #1

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    Lithable hand made emulsion

    With the steady decline in the number of papers that lith print, has anyone explored hand made emulsions that lith?

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    John;

    I have not tried any lithing with any of my Br or Br/I emulsions, but they might work. Commercial emulsions should work as well.

    Right now, I'm not sure what characteristics are needed to get a good lithable emulsion. I am too busy draining the swamp to worry about the alligators (or some such phrase).

    PE

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    What is lithing?

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    Hans;

    There are many threads on this here on APUG. It is not a subject for the emulsion making formum however as it is process related. I suggest you do a search.

    PE

  5. #5
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Bond View Post
    With the steady decline in the number of papers that lith print, has anyone explored hand made emulsions that lith?
    Not tried lith printing yet, but from what I understood from it, it requires a long "wet processing" cycle for the paper, especially the development.

    This may be a major issue with a hand coated liquid emulsion, as these (at least in my limited experience with Black Magic VC liquid emulsion) are far less robust than commercial papers, even when using hardening agents.

    You may find (part of) your emulsion floating around in the developer before you actually manage to get a "lith" result... :o

    Marco
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    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  6. #6
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    PE - Are you up to your a$$ in alligators?

    There are still many papers that work with lith developers, and although I don't know how hand made emulsions 'home coated' would work, it might be worth investigating what the liquid emulsions out there will do.
    There are also many papers that may not look pleasing right out of the lith chemistry, but with toning can become quite attractive.
    Also keep in mind that you can print on papers that don't normally lith, bleach them back and re-develop in lith chemistry.

    There are lots of options to be optimistic, continue to push the envelope of what you think is possible and you may find yourself surprised. Try different things, experiment.

    My latest discovery is that Ilford MGWT is now my favorite lith paper. Especially with the Arista Premium Liquid Lith, available from Freestyle, it's gorgeous. You have to go through some toning steps on the tail end to make it truly delicious, but it can be done. And if there's one single paper that is likely to outlast the others, it's Ilford MGWT.
    The new Fomabrom Variant 123 has had some really nice results tied to it, which is also good news.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

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    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    Not necessarily. It depends on how you approach lith printing.

    Bob Carnie, master printer at Elevator, does lith with time development, same as regular printing, and controls all aspects at the moment of exposure with pre-flashing etc. If you use a strong and warm enough lith bath, you can get down to 3-4 minutes development time. I've had them as fast as 1.5 minutes at times.
    If you use extremely dilute developer, however, you may have to keep the print wet as long as 30-60 minutes, though. You are correct there, and that type of approach may have to be omitted, if the maximum wet time the paper can withstand is short.

    The wet processing time should not be an issue. Most of the time the print is wet it's being washed anyway.

    - Thomas

    Quote Originally Posted by Marco B View Post
    Not tried lith printing yet, but from what I understood from it, it requires a long "wet processing" cycle for the paper, especially the development.

    This may be a major issue with a hand coated liquid emulsion, as these (at least in my limited experience with Black Magic VC liquid emulsion) are far less robust than commercial papers, even when using hardening agents.

    You may find (part of) your emulsion floating around in the developer before you actually manage to get a "lith" result... :o

    Marco
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

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    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    If you use a strong and warm enough lith bath, you can get down to 3-4 minutes development time. I've had them as fast as 1.5 minutes at times.
    OK, maybe it is do-able, but warming up your developer certainly won't help either with keeping the hand coated emulsion intact... I like to coat with a brush, and these coatings tend to be fairly uneven and fragile at times, adding to the problems.
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  9. #9
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    That's a good point I didn't consider. I'm talking about 75*F, so a bit above the standard 68*F. It helps to increase the activity of the developer and avoid long processing times.
    Thanks!
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  10. #10
    Guillaume Zuili's Avatar
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    Everything is possible. You just need to try yourself !
    :-)

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