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  1. #31

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    I don't really know enough about it to speculate... but there is the Publish or Perish dictum and most scientists probably do want their name to carry weight. The whole thing of how and with what strings attached individual companies (as well as governments) are supporting research at institutes of higher learning, and manipulating free access to the knowledge gained is beyond the scrutinity of my vision.

    I imagine the system of providing grants to researchers is source of the influence.
    How much University level research is supported by private industry?

    Perhaps someone reading this has some first hand experience they could share?

    What does a NDA agreement actually look like?
    Are they enforceable? Has Kodak ever had a NDA go bad?
    What are the consequences of breaking a NDA?

    As far as Mitchell feeling like an "outsider", you may be right. But I think Mees shared Mitchell's understanding of the importance of publishing... I think Eastman may have wanted to close the door compleatelly, but IIRC, it was Mees who saw to it that Kodak scientsts' work should be published. Perhaps as a compromise, the publications were first published as individual papers, and only later as a collection. Presumably, being published individually made it harder for Kodak competitors to benefit from Kodak Research than had the work been published under a single title.

    As far as working day and night to catch up there is little doubt about that... but that was not really unique to the photographic industry... the Japanese have long had a catch phrase "追い付く、追い越す" ("Oitsuku-Oikosu" or "Catch-up, Then Pass") that describes this very real desire to catch up with the west.

    I guess it is a good thing dinner doesn't get too technical.

    Ray

  2. #32
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    Ray, I would say that the published to unpublished ratio of work at EK is on the order of 1:100. That means that a lot of work is never revealed.

    An NDA can be one page long. It can state simply that I will not speak to anyone about this, or the following things will happen. I have signed several for EK over the years. They are now expired. They do have time limits. Usually it is 5 years past the end of employment for any reason. That is just one example. It can be "upon disclosure of this item by the company" or "disclosure of this item by another company". These are all valid statements but they are wrapped up in legalese. Consequences vary including fines and sudden unemployment or both!

    PE

  3. #33

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    Emprisioned Knowledge

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Ray, I would say that the published to unpublished ratio of work at EK is on the order of 1:100. That means that a lot of work is never revealed.
    PE
    If Mitchell was aware this, keeping in mind he was an outside specialist, I guess we can hardly fault him for his frustration.
    Last edited by Ray Rogers; 12-22-2009 at 09:31 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    ...you get a variety of shapes and sizes which we call K grains (Klunkers). PE
    I was recently looking at some X-ray emulsions and noticed that the grains seemed pretty much spherical. Sort of like bubbles... Would this sort of grain (possibly octahedral grains prior to ripening) have been given a new name to describe the post ripened shape? (such as "potato grains" ?)

    Ray
    Last edited by Ray Rogers; 12-22-2009 at 09:21 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #35
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    Those were probably made with an Ammonia digest and would be considered rounded cubes or rounded octahedra. My ISO 40 emulsion is in that category. You may want to look at the SEMs that I posted here on APUG.

    PE

  6. #36
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    Ray;

    I can find no definitive work by Mitchell by using Google. I was wondering if you have a reference. Also, to which Keith are you referring as there are several around here.

    PE

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Ray;

    I can find no definitive work by Mitchell by using Google. I was wondering if you have a reference. Also, to which Keith are you referring as there are several around here.

    PE

    Sure. I will retrive a couple and post them shortly.
    Ray

  8. #38
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    I am The Keith, Ron

    I'll read through the thread and add any info that I can, though I don't know much about the subject at hand. What I do know from our conversations is that Jack had major disagreements with somebody at EK regarding hole sensitization and directions for further sensitization improvements in general. Whether these things made it to press, I don't know; I think I do have his complete biography and publication list, if that is helpful. What I recall is that a great number of his publications were in journals that don't have open online access. It was a real headache for me to track them down.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildbillbugman View Post
    PE,
    Someone said(it may have been you)that they were told to go to Japan if he wished to continue doing film research.
    That is what Jack Mitchell told me. He said it very pointedly. He said it like a mentor speaking to a student, i.e. listen to me, I know what I am saying, don't deal with EK, go to Japan (with a finger waving!). But that was a few years ago, and I think Jack and EK parted ways in the late 80s or so.

    When I was going through his stuff after he passed, I found a number of items related to trips to Japan. Boxes of slides, phrasebooks, Japanese photographic lexicons etc. My impression was that Jack had very strong relationships with researchers in Japan, and if I remember correctly he got some sort of commendation from Fuji. Anyway, in the late 90s or so, Jack began to get the effects of Alzheimer's and his research stopped.
    Last edited by keithwms; 12-22-2009 at 11:18 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Ray;

    I can find no definitive work by Mitchell by using Google. I was wondering if you have a reference. Also, to which Keith are you referring as there are several around here.

    PE
    Ron,

    That would be Keith Williams.
    He is offline now but I sent him a note to let him know why he is doing so much sneezing...

    There is a curious nomenclature problem, Jack or John.
    Whichever, I think both names referr to the same person.

    The first few are from his time at the U. of Virginia:

    John Mitchell
    Faculty Publications 1995-1999

    J. W. Mitchell, “ON the Role of Silver Molecules in Photographic Sensitivity,” Imaging Sci J 45 (1), 2-7 (1997).

    J. W. Mitchell, “Role of Dislocations in Silver-Halide Photography,” J Imaging Sci Technol 41 (1), 1-12 (1997).

    J. W. Mitchell, “Nanoclusters of Silver and Gold Atoms,” J Photogr Sci 44 (3), 82-86 (1996).

    J. W. Mitchell, “The Basic Concepts of the Photoaggregation Theory,”
    J Imaging Sci Technol 39 (3), 193 - 204 (1995).

    He also edited:
    Fundamental Mechanisms of Sensitivity
    Butterworth and London
    1951

    and was involved with several other publications on photographic sensitivity.

    Ray

    ps: Ok, So maybe Keith isn't offline! :o
    Things change so quick around here!
    Last edited by Ray Rogers; 12-22-2009 at 11:43 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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