Large Qontities of Methanol

[Ray Rogers]

I can speak from experience: Do not use meths as bbq starter!

Meths as a bbq starter!?
Yea, that can really kill an appitite.



Cell Phones and gasoline?
Whats the issue with cell phones?

[Photo Engineer]

RF can detonate some items Ray.

Did you know that Angora and other fuzzy sweaters were banned on pads at Cape Canaveral? During fueling, the high oxygen content on the pad caused O2 to adsorb to a sweater, and the static electricity discharge caused a severe fire? So, they had signs prohibiting sweaters beyond a certain point on pads there.

PE

[Ray Rogers]

Did not know that.

I wonder if Angora rabbits are also a risk?
Other furry critters?

Re: RF... Has there been actual cases of this problem with cell phone users?
Is that the reason we have to turn off all communication devices during take off and landing?

[Photo Engineer]

When you drive through a construction area in which they may be blasting, you are warned to turn off radios and cell phones. So, there must be a serious question having arisen somewhere.

PE

[bdial]

The reasoning behind turning off cell phones and electronics for take off and landing is the theoretical chance of them interfering with the plane's avionics. To be certified for use in an aircraft every electronic component must be tested. Since testing every cell phone/dvd player/walkman/computer/gameboy/etc. isn't practical, they just require all of them to be off.
The reality is that the avionics are built to be resistant to electronic interference, since there are plenty of uncontrollable sources, and the gadgets used by passengers are unlikely to cause problems. But rules are rules, and they are the rules for good reasons.
Mythbusters did an piece on this a while back, they found that yes, it's possible, but in practice, on a plane with modern avionics, not likely.

[Kirk Keyes]

When you drive through a construction area in which they may be blasting, you are warned to turn off radios and cell phones. So, there must be a serious question having arisen somewhere.

In my youth, I read I.E. DuPont's excellent book, "The Blaster's Handbook". (Side note - And I wasn't surpised about the Oklahoma Courthouse Bombing having read that book. I think Timothy McVey must have read it too.)

According to that book, which was written in the 1950s, RF can cause an electrical current in the long lead wires that are connected to blasting caps. A radio with sufficient wattage, can make enough current to detonate a blasting cap, and then set off the dynamite or other explosive being used. For that reason, they are required to be off in areas where blasting is being used. Modern cell phones generate much less RF than old mobile phones and portable radio units do.

As far as the claim that cell phones can cause fires at gas stations, while it is theoretically possible, no fires have been attributed to cell phone use when thoroughly investigated and it is an urban legend. Static electricity can, but no cell phones have.
http://www.snopes.com/autos/hazards/gasvapor.asp
http://urbanlegends.about.com/librar...y/aa062399.htm
http://mythbustersresults.com/episode2

Kirk - out to debunk urban legends when I see them.

[Photo Engineer]

Kirk;

Never forget that mythbusters can get things wrong as well. They said splinters from wood hit by cannonballs was harmless but these same splinters have been written up in many old books as the source of major injuries aboard seagoing ships of that era. There are others that come to mind, but you have to remember that RF can generate a current in a wire and if there is a gap in the wire a spark can jump. This is "can" not will. In fact, back in the old days, we were even concerned about the heat generated by radio tubes in radios in our labs. (we never did anything about it though )

I might add that we had special refrigerators at Kodak due to the propensity of commercial units to explode due to the small switches sparking when the door was opened and there was a solvent present. I saw a demonstration that blew the door off one unit.

PE

[Kirk Keyes]

Explosion-proof refrigerators for solvent use is a known, and as you have witnessed, a real concern.

Certainly, Mythbusters can get it wrong - got to their website and they admit as much. They have revisited many of the episodes to try new variations on the hypotheses. But it has not been shown by actual investigators that these pump fires are caused by cell phones, despite what it claimed by the news or chain emails.

[Photo Engineer]

I remembered in the mean-time, one important fact!

We used special conductive clothing and shoes when working in the solvent coating area. Any spark could cause a severe fire or explosion.

And yes, no one is right 100% of the time. I just feel that it is better to be safe than sorry. Why sub your own film when it has been shown that you can buy it pre subbed.

PE

[tkamiya]

The "vibrate" feature of cell phones use small motor with non-concentric mount weight. My understanding is, a tiny spark created by the brush of that motor can possibly cause an explosion during fueling gas. Personally, I think, if that's a concern, door switch on cars that turn on/off dome light can do the same.....

I kind of understand it as a precaution, and to keep an watchful eye over the task at hand - fueling of gas, which basically is dispensing explosive and highly flammable liquid/gas in large quantity into a mobile container.