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  1. #11

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    I always knew Photo Flo wasn't just soap, and I use it because my water is hard, but this is another reason to use it. You wouldn't happen to know the exact mix amount of Photo Flo for 16 fluid Oz of water would you? I feel that "to the line on the inside of the cap" is a little less than repeatable. Actually the Photo Flo mixing is the part of my process that I can't do the same every time.

    Thanks for the info.
    "Would you like it if someone that painted in oils told you that you were not making portraits because you were using a camera?"
    "Shouldn't it be more about the joy of producing and viewing the photo than what you paid for the camera?"

    Me

  2. #12
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexhill View Post
    This is interesting! I've got to coat some glass soon, so I'd like to give this a try. how are you applying the photoflow to the glass?

    I'll take a guess. Clean the glass, the submerge in photoflow (mixed to the right dilution) then let dry before coating?
    The surfactant, when used, is added to the melted emulsion along with the hardener just before coating and is held at 40 deg C during the entire coating session.

    This method does not work with all emulsions, and Photo Flo is not the best surfactant for use on glass as has been pointed out by Denise Ross and Mark Osterman. If used, it may need to be "assisted" by another surfactant.

    PE

  3. #13
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    This method is NOT for use in processing emulsions. It is used in the making and coating of an emulsion.

    Photo Flo dilution in water for processing is contained in the name. Photo Flo 200 is thus diluted 1:199 and Photo Flo 600 is diluted 1:599. For use with emulsion coating, the level must be determined by the coater. I use 1/2 ml for every 200 ml of 10% gelatin.

    PE

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by alexhill View Post
    I've got to coat some glass soon, ...
    Years ago when glass plates were popular, the glass was briefly etched with hydrofluoric acid. The amount of etching was invisible to the naked eye but provided a tooth for the adherence of the emulsion. If you decide to try this please observe safety requirements for this acid.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  5. #15
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    This method is NOT for use in processing emulsions. It is used in the making and coating of an emulsion.

    Photo Flo dilution in water for processing is contained in the name. Photo Flo 200 is thus diluted 1:199 and Photo Flo 600 is diluted 1:599. For use with emulsion coating, the level must be determined by the coater. I use 1/2 ml for every 200 ml of 10% gelatin.

    PE
    The method of adding a specific surfactants as developer improvers, not just as wetting agents, has been used in developers in the past and some almost certainly still use them. Agfa, Ilford, Kodak & Fuji all have Patents covering their use.

    So the answer to Clayne's question is probably yes in theory, but very likely less so in practice because it would be better to add them at the emulsion coating stage which gives greater benefits/effects.

    Agfa's 1930's work on surfactants as an aid to elimination air bubbles threw up unexpected results which triggered a number of Patents. Somewhere I have the details and references.

    Mason touches on the subject without giving much in terms of references except to work by James (at Kodak).

    Ian

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    This method is NOT for use in processing emulsions. It is used in the making and coating of an emulsion.

    Photo Flo dilution in water for processing is contained in the name. Photo Flo 200 is thus diluted 1:199 and Photo Flo 600 is diluted 1:599. For use with emulsion coating, the level must be determined by the coater. I use 1/2 ml for every 200 ml of 10% gelatin.

    PE
    I thank you not only for setting me straight on that, but also for providing me with an off topic (not that I knew I was off topic) answer that is so simple I will never forget it. I will get a measuring device (medication syringe for children's oral medication) and add it to my kit.
    "Would you like it if someone that painted in oils told you that you were not making portraits because you were using a camera?"
    "Shouldn't it be more about the joy of producing and viewing the photo than what you paid for the camera?"

    Me

  7. #17
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Ray, this was an idea which was "discovered" by many companies at about the same time. I have used many surfactants for controls as well as none.

    PE

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