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  1. #31
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    Holmburgers is a portmanteau of my last name, Holmquist, and hamburgers. I picked the name in middle school and I've chosen to live with it

    That's what I mean... undoubtedly Kodak has complete documentation of every step in excruciating detail on how to create Kodachrome, Ektachrome, Portra 400, etc. Sure the patents are there, but the extra research to get to the finished product is proprietary.

    Why can't wikileaks expose this instead of "diplomatic secrets", ooooh, like anyone cares about that!

  2. #32
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    I must reinforce previous comments here on this. No single person at Kodak knows the entire formula for any product. It is broken into steps with code numbers for ingredients. So, the instructions may read for one person, make emulsion K1650 and pass it on to stage 2. Stage 2 says give it finish XK56 with RL115 treatment and pass to stage 3. Stage 3 is coat K1650F 1:1:1 with K1500F and K2200F with NF633 at 20 mg / mole and NAZ at 100 mg/mole. Silver levels to be adjusted to 300 mg/ft square and gelatin at 5%, with drying condition D7 at speed 3. In the end, none of these people may know what any of this means nor what product it is for.

    I have used formulas just like the above but far more complicated involving up to say 20 ingredients or steps / layer with nothing but codes and numbers.

    To go further, I know that some products have more than one formula depending on conditions. The results may be identical, but the formula is different. This usually applies to emulsions though, and is caused by variations in gelatin, addenda, scale and silver.

    I am trying to take some of that mystery out of this but there it is. If Kodak closed its doors, I doubt if anyone in a single lifetime could reconstruct more than a fraction of the product line, if that.

    PE

  3. #33
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    Touché
    Actually, no sense of Touche was intended.

    PE

  4. #34
    holmburgers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Actually, no sense of Touche was intended.

    PE
    Yeah, I'm not sure I use that word properly all the time... mommy and daddy could never afford fencing lessons!!


  5. #35

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    0.K.,
    We will never know how the Pyramids of Egypt were constructed. And who needs them anyway. I understand both points. I still WILL make a panchromatic emulsion fast enough for in-camera color separation.All the Digital cameras will fry in the upcoming super solar flair. Now I will get back to reading.
    God Bless Oxycodone!
    Bill

  6. #36
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    I am not trying to sidetrack the discussion even further here, but having worked in museum and archive settings I know enough to know that when a company decides to leave a product (or field of action) by the wayside, there is more luck than anything if even the smallest bits of the really interesting documentation is retained. Even if the technical documentation does survive, there is also a "silent knowledge" that almost always gets lost if there isn't a tradition of apprenticeship or similar.

    Regarding the Kodak codes: it sounds like a pretty fool-proof way of keeping people in the dark.
    Last edited by Jerevan; 12-10-2010 at 04:37 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    “Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity.” - Lao Tzu

  7. #37
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    It's late around here so excuse the rambling. Something Denise touched on earlier is the practical vs the theoretical parts of emulsion making. The knowledge of the properties of bromine is good in of itself and a theoretical discussion may lead somewhere good and unknown. But the practical making, basically the re-invention of emulsion making that we need is something else. The two parts may intersect but the prime goal as is still making an emulsion, right?
    “Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity.” - Lao Tzu

  8. #38
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    PE ,

    I had been attemped to order analysis of PN55 at a chemistry lab at France which work for Kodak France.
    Is it possible to crack the ciphers with chemical , physical analysis ?
    For example , Brovira , It is still possible to find and you can sell the formula to a factory at china.
    You dont lose money but satisfaction is guaranteed !
    Electricity and raw materials are 10 times cheaper there and environmental problems are not a concern.

    Umut

  9. #39
    AgX
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    The knowledge obout the ingredients of a film doesn't tell you that much about making that film.

  10. #40
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    No, that's what I guess I was trying to say in a few more words.
    “Do your work, then step back. The only path to serenity.” - Lao Tzu

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