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  1. #71
    michaelbsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    The time and intensity are critical and differ for each of the 3 Kodachrome films, 25, 64 and 200.
    As a starting point, is it reasonable to expect that the exposure value for the three speeds are related by their relative ASA speeds. Specifically, if the 200 requires 'X', then the 64 will likely require 1.3*X, and the 25 will require 8*X?

    MB
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  2. #72
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    No, you cannot just assume it will work. It might be close though. The first development will change the emulsions ever so slightly. For example, the blue sensitizing dye will probably wash away thereby reducing blue speed. OTOH, the red sensitizing dye is designed to stay in place for the red reexposure. So this will cause some sort of change.

    PE

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    No, you cannot just assume it will work. It might be close though. The first development will change the emulsions ever so slightly. For example, the blue sensitizing dye will probably wash away thereby reducing blue speed. OTOH, the red sensitizing dye is designed to stay in place for the red reexposure. So this will cause some sort of change.

    PE
    Then, likewise, the adjustment between Daylight and Tungsten balanced film reexposures will not be exactly predictable by the relative spectral components of Daylight vs Tungsten light although this may provide a reasonable starting framework for empirical discovery.

    Do I understand this correctly?

    And, in any case, once one has worked out the necessary exposures for each type they will not change?
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  4. #74

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    How does the K-Lab machine precisely re-expose the film? Kittlegraphy over at the Kodachrome Project forums has such a machine; perhaps the necessary data could be obtained from testing with it?

  5. #75
    michaelbsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mustafa Umut Sarac View Post
    Ron , I think below list is ok , I could not find cyan chemicl name . Do you accept the list ?

    cyan coupler is selected from the class consisting of a phenol and a naphthol; said magenta coupler is a 5-pyrazolone coupler and said yellow coupler is an acylacetacetamide.

    yellow :1-Hydroxy-N-(2-acetamidophenethyl)- 2-naphthamide
    link :http://www.coleparmer.com/1/1/38773-...amide-10g.html

    magenta :1-(2,4,6-Trichlorophenyl)-3-(p-nitroanilino)-2-pyrazoline-5-one
    link :http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/pr...sp?sku=8835888

    cyan :acylamino phenols
    link :http://patimg1.uspto.gov/.piw?Docid=...iew+first+page

    patent :2423730

    google patents :http://www.google.com/patents/about?...BAJ&dq=2423730
    Umut,

    It may be helpful to the Kodachrome community to share these links with Kittleagraphy on http://www.kodachromeproject.com/for...p?t=674&page=4

    He seems to have the only remaining K-Lab in the world, and the chemistry is the missing component.
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  6. #76

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    Without using the three color couplers, and run the complete K-14 process, is it possible getting a good quality Black and White slides?

  7. #77
    Mustafa Umut Sarac's Avatar
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    Micheal ,

    I did not check their correctness , PE published the couplers and developers at other thread today.
    Did you check them ? If you want to give link to another forum , use Photo Engineer posts.
    Finding the correct chemical is easy if you have money.

    Umut
    Last edited by Mustafa Umut Sarac; 01-01-2011 at 05:41 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #78
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Michael;

    You understand the re-exposure correctly!

    bwfans;

    If you run the Kodachrome process without couplers, you get clear blank film!

    PE

  9. #79
    michaelbsc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Michael;

    You understand the re-exposure correctly!
    OK, please bear with me a little. Let's move away from reexposure for a moment and look at the color development steps. I'll come back to the reexposure later.

    Remember this thread from two years ago? (Do not think I've taken my eye off the ball on this. Resources, not dedication, are the issue. I have to earn a living to eat, and I'm a big guy so eating is important.)

    ========
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum205/...n-formula.html

    There we spoke about using three pieces of panchromatic film with tri-color filters.
    ========

    Now, back to my list of steps for home processing the thousands of Found Kodachrome rolls which will appear over the next years:

    05) red/cyan develop (Mustafa has tracked down the coupler chemicals, but we don't know exact process yet.)

    08) blue/yellow develop (Again, Mustafa has tracked down the coupler chemicals, but we don't know exact process yet.)

    11) green/magenta develop (And again, Mustafa has tracked down the chemicals, but we don't know exact process yet.)


    >>>>>Here's the questions!<<<<<
    Is it reasonable to believe that we can "practice" on steps 05, 08, and 11 with the couplers to gain an understanding of how those steps will work using ordinary panchromatic sheets of a tri-color separation? Specifically, will learning to get the couplers to form the appropriate dyes in an inexpensive piece of Arista EDU also tell us how to work that step so that it correctly forms the dyes in K64? Or at least gives us a fair starting point even if it's not exactly correct?

    Specifically, for each research trial, we'll make three exposures through separation filters, process the three in E6 first developer, then separate them so that we can learn the chemistry requirements for the three color development steps without cluttering up the experiments with the necessity of being extremely careful with the red and blue reexposure. Finally we'll put them back together for the rest of the E6 process.

    I suspect that using this scheme we can simply fog each without regard to light cross contamination since the blue/yellow sheet and the green/magenta sheet will not be in the chemicals with the red/cyan sheet during the red/cyan develop cycle. Likewise for the other two, the absence of the other sheets during the specific color development step makes the reexposure of the sheet of interest merely a matter of fogging rather than controlling it tightly. Do I understand this?
    Michael Batchelor
    Industrial Informatics, Inc.
    www.industrialinformatics.com

    The camera catches light. The photographer catches life.

  10. #80
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Michael;

    In practice at EK, we do work with what amounts to B&W single layer coatings. The problem is that a multilayer version acts differently due to diffusion. That bugaboo changes everything. The end result though is that whatever you do with whatever process and coating, your final result will be OK if you can produce a neutral step wedge from a 3 color exposure.

    PE

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