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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    The German wording is unclear. They use a word which my dictionary translates as "basting sauce" or "gravy". This could mean something coated over the emulsion or something added to the emulsion.
    What is the original German wording?

  2. #12

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    possibly begiess... ?

    But I would probably translate that "dowse", "douse" or even simply "add".

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
    possibly begiess... ?

    But I would probably translate that "dowse", "douse" or even simply "add".
    It's no more than "pour on" or "pour over".

  4. #14

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    Right.
    But if you look at the word "Baste"
    there is some similarity... and I can imagine it being translated that way by...
    a chef perhaps?

    Actually now that I looked back at PEs post I can see where "sauce" might come from:

    Begiess Zusatze (umlaut on the a)*


    *((I forgot how to make umlauts in MS Word... anyone know?))
    Last edited by Ray Rogers; 02-02-2011 at 12:55 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #15
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    Ray;

    Since one formula states the dye is "unbekannt" or unknown, and another formula for a different paper specifically states Erythrosine and gives the exact amount and dilution, I have only suspicions that they are using Erythrosine in Brovira. It is certain to me that Brovira is sensitized though, by some means.

    It is also clear that the formulas give in Glafkides omits two items. They are, the dye that is unbekannt and the overcoat with its materials for matting, gloss and keeping. In some formulas, the stabilizer is actually in the emulsion. In any case, it is omitted. This is all according to my notes on Brovira.

    But then, I have seen 2 or 3 versions of these. One is in the BIOS reports and the other is in the FIAT reports. The third comes from derivative sources some posted here including Glafkides. Since the third sources seem mostly sins of omission so to speak, I think that is what they are. The types from the original reports do differ though and this has been reported elsewhere.

    PE

  6. #16

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    I have a splitting headach again but I will try to respond.
    I think we agree with the first paragraph,
    but why it is certain to you that Brovira was sensitized
    could perhaps be explained in some detail...
    Is it just the obvious and undisputed "unbekannt"s,
    a lack of speed in your recreated versions,
    or published spectral data from actual period emulsions?

    My memory says you are right about Glafkides, but I don't hold that against him.
    In fact I think it was he who warned about how messy the reports were.
    Besides, he only listed a few of the formulas anyway, and as you know there are a lot of them.

    I do not think that all of the Broviras were sensitized- although some were.

    One of the dyes I know by both name and structure but another just by its chemical name....

  7. #17
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    My notes read: "Sensibilisierungs-Farbstoff-S to-Gemish 1:1000 X, Losung X) Konsitution hier unbekannt" Or Sensitizing Dye S mixed 1:1000, composition is unknown here.

    You are right, some were and some were not. Portrigas also had a dye.

    PE

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
    Right.
    But if you look at the word "Baste"
    there is some similarity... and I can imagine it being translated that way by...
    a chef perhaps?

    Actually now that I looked back at PEs post I can see where "sauce" might come from:

    Begiess Zusatze (umlaut on the a)*
    Yes, a chef might translate it as "baste".
    But it would be putting his interpretation into the translation, that isn't necessarily in the original.
    That doesn't mean it is incorrect. On the contrary: it probably is quite accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Rogers View Post
    *((I forgot how to make umlauts in MS Word... anyone know?))
    Alt-0228 = ä
    Alt-0246 = ö
    Alt-0252 = ü

  9. #19

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    Q.G.:
    Does that mean I push "ALT" followed by the #s? , like this...
    or perhaps at the same time, like this...
    well that did not work...
    (maybe because I am using a Japanese keyboard its different?)

    more guidence needed!

    Ron:
    Right. That looks to be page XL, btw.
    Last edited by Ray Rogers; 02-02-2011 at 02:07 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  10. #20

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    Press Alt, and hold it until you have entered the 4 digit code (on the numerical keypad).

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