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  1. #21
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Geiss is also the word for coat. So, we have an ambiguity here that I have not figured out.

    The Japanese word for their coating operation is "Lay" and I used that early on at Kodak after a tour of the Japanese plant. It got quite a laugh from my co-workers. Each "secret" manufacturing facility uses their own terminology. When I teach, I use Kodak terminology. For example, we do not "confection" at Kodak, we finish or package.

    As an afterthought, Erythrosine is so hard to adsorb to an emulsion, it is often added before precipitation so I cannot see it being added as an overcoat. Other dyes can probably be added in an overcoat.

    PE

  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Geiss is also the word for coat. So, we have an ambiguity here that I have not figured out.
    Nope. "Giessen" is nothing more than "to pour".
    You can indeed coat something by pouring something over that something. But it's not included nor implied by the verb "Giessen" itself.
    So there may be ambiguities, but that's not one of them.

  3. #23

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    I think in this case it takes on its meaning from the context;
    if you pour on a "coating" you can squeeze the noun so hard it will willingly give you the verb!

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    neru?
    I thought it was nuru?

    Confection is British?

    Sounds so sweet!

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    Nope. "Giessen" is nothing more than "to pour".
    You can indeed coat something by pouring something over that something. But it's not included nor implied by the verb "Giessen" itself.
    So there may be ambiguities, but that's not one of them.
    In German, Geissmachin is Coating Machine. I agree that geiss also means pour. This is part of the ambiguity. Usually, pour is translated as Kippen or tip or dump. Again it is confusing.

    PE

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    In German, Geissmachin is Coating Machine. I agree that geiss also means pour. This is part of the ambiguity. Usually, pour is translated as Kippen or tip or dump. Again it is confusing.

    PE
    No, no.

    "Giessen" is nothing more than "to pour".
    "Kippen" is "to tilt", or indeed "tip".

    Different thingies. You may have to 'kipp' something to 'giess' its content over something. You can 'kipp' something without it resulting in 'giessen'.
    As in: you may have to 'tip' a container to 'pour' its content over something. But when you tip your hat, it will only pour something when its pouring with rain.


    The German thing is a pouring-machine, i.e. named after the action. While the English counterpart is named after the result.

    (A "Geiss", by the way, is a "goat". A bit archaic word, but that's what it means.
    So you were only one letter away from being absolutely right when you wrote "Geiss is also the word for coat" )

  7. #27
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    Geiss = Goat and Giess = Coat (pour). Just a spelling error.

    Notwithstanding my spelling error, an Agfa coating machine was called Giessmachin or pouring machine. So we have a problem about whether the 6 (plus several left out of the list) ingredients given in published Brovira formulas were poured into the emulsion or coated with it or over it.

    Lets just leave it ambiguous and say that many ingredients including some type of sensitizing dye were added to the Brovira and Portriga formulas. Included in this mix was an unknown dye and Erythrosine depending on product.

    That might be a suitable summary.

    PE

  8. #28

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    You would need a description explicitely describing the sequence in which things were done to be sure, i guess.

  9. #29
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    Ron:

    How much erythrosin would you add to say 125ml of emulsion, and where in the make would you add it for a good green sensitivity?

    Joe
    There is no such thing as taking too much time, because your soul is in that picture. -Ruth Bernhard

  10. #30
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    Joe;

    I would not recommend spectral sensitization of the Azo emulsion. I merely mentioned it and demonstrated that it can be done. If you want to do it, it should be added just before you add the spreading agent and the hardener. You hold for 15" before adding the spreading agent and the hardener and coat immediately. Depending on conditions, this addition speeds hardening up of the gelatin and you can end up with a ball of red jelly.

    Did you solve the other problem?

    PE

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