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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbrigham View Post
    Hi Dan

    I think the moral of the story is not to ask questions that you might feel the need to answer
    can you advise on any subject that would be suitable for me to ask about

    I am well aware of lens systems such as the Frazier lens which can get an amazing result and I am well aware of the methods used to get there

    I was looking for something different hoping that somebody would say a Zeiss this or a Leitz that or whatever has a very good performance when stopped right downpresumably a plastic holga lens will not perform as well as a Zeiss macro under these conditions
    it therefore follows that somewhere there is the best design for high stop deep focus work be it a tessar, planar or whatever or maybe just maybe something I don't know about

    I do not know what methods steve downer used to get the results in the video i posted I can guess but I don't know

    the reason I posted the question in the apug macro section was so that somebody who knows more than me might be able to advise me on my actual question
    not so that you can guess at my education

    and as for "Troll"

    maybe you should look up the definition and think about if it applies to you

    robin
    Unfortunately, all lenses from all manufacturers obey the same laws of physics.

  2. #22

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    hi dan

    curmudgeon. good word
    seems you and I have some things in common

    I know that on paper high stops do not add up
    but presumably some lenses are better than others

    it's for a bugs eye view shot but basically
    the director wants it shot on a 50mm
    it will be similar shots to the video I posted
    split diopter a and focus stacking are not an option
    the camera will be hand held and basically flown around as if it's a bee or what ever
    focus pulling will not be possible
    We will probably end up shooting on a 16mm camera with a wide lens stopped all the way down

    regards robin

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by rbrigham View Post
    hi dan

    curmudgeon. good word
    seems you and I have some things in common

    I know that on paper high stops do not add up
    but presumably some lenses are better than others
    Well, some lenses are better wide open than others, but stop any of 'em down much and image quality goes away.
    it's for a bugs eye view shot but basically
    the director wants it shot on a 50mm
    it will be similar shots to the video I posted
    split diopter a and focus stacking are not an option
    the camera will be hand held and basically flown around as if it's a bee or what ever
    focus pulling will not be possible
    We will probably end up shooting on a 16mm camera with a wide lens stopped all the way down
    The shots in the video were all at magnifications (for the close-up subject) smaller than 1:1 and many, as seen in the video, were fuzzy all over. The fuzziness may be due to the steps between the images as originally shot and the video.

    Many still photographers have a fantasy to the effect that shooting at low magnification and then enlarging more will give more DoF in the final print than shooting at high magnification and enlarging less. The gains are real but negligible. And that's what shooting on 16 will get you. Still, if you have the time to experiment before shooting for real by all means try it out.

    I b'lieve that Oxford Scientific Films shot mainly 16 -- at least the OSF crew I once ran into in Panama did -- and that they sometimes got the effect you're after. I don't know where OSF's doors are, let alone which one to knock on, but if you have the time you might want to ask them what they did.

    Cheers,

    Dan

  4. #24

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    Lenses made for larger formats tend to be slower to begin with. A technique I have tried is to use a lens intended for medium format shooting or enlarging with extension on a 35mm camera. A 60mm f/4 enlarging lens needs only two stops to make it to f/8. A 55mm f/2.8 macro lens needs three stops to make it to f/8. If I need to use any front standard bellows movement the 60/4 [Bogen Wide Angle] gives me a little extra coverage because it was made for enlarging 60X60 rather than 24X36. I prefer enlarging lenses for this purpose. A lens with a helical mount or maybe even a built in shutter will involve hanging a lot of weight at the front end of the bellows. Another lens I have used this way is a 150/5.6 Rodagon.

  5. #25
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynachrome View Post
    Lenses made for larger formats tend to be slower to begin with. A technique I have tried is to use a lens intended for medium format shooting or enlarging with extension on a 35mm camera. A 60mm f/4 enlarging lens needs only two stops to make it to f/8. A 55mm f/2.8 macro lens needs three stops to make it to f/8.
    What is your idea behind this?

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by dynachrome View Post
    Lenses made for larger formats tend to be slower to begin with. A technique I have tried is to use a lens intended for medium format shooting or enlarging with extension on a 35mm camera. A 60mm f/4 enlarging lens needs only two stops to make it to f/8. A 55mm f/2.8 macro lens needs three stops to make it to f/8. If I need to use any front standard bellows movement the 60/4 [Bogen Wide Angle] gives me a little extra coverage because it was made for enlarging 60X60 rather than 24X36. I prefer enlarging lenses for this purpose. A lens with a helical mount or maybe even a built in shutter will involve hanging a lot of weight at the front end of the bellows. Another lens I have used this way is a 150/5.6 Rodagon.
    Um, which question are you answering? I ask because the OP, a cinematographer, eventually came back and explained that he is looking for a deep focus lens with which to take a bug's eye view shot with a flying camera in which very near subjects and the distant horizon will both be in focus. He posted a link to a video that shows more-or-less what he wants to accomplish.

    The ways still photographers get very near and distant in focus simultaneously can't be used with a flying camera. Focus stacking is out too, except perhaps for claymation.

    Ask Google to find deep focus lens. Also "deep focus lens" and Frazier. The things exist, there's no magic involved (just a lot of money), and still photographers rarely if ever use them.

  7. #27
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    Lennart Nilsson has done some amazing macro photography, although often with custom designed and constructed lenses. I don't have a link available to any of his technical information at the moment.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Jones View Post
    Lennart Nilsson has done some amazing macro photography, although often with custom designed and constructed lenses. I don't have a link available to any of his technical information at the moment.
    Jim, here http://www.lennartnilsson.com/close_to_nature.html are some examples of his work. Nice, but not what the OP asked about. Look at the video he posted a link to.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dynachrome View Post
    Lenses made for larger formats tend to be slower to begin with. A technique I have tried is to use a lens intended for medium format shooting or enlarging with extension on a 35mm camera. A 60mm f/4 enlarging lens needs only two stops to make it to f/8. A 55mm f/2.8 macro lens needs three stops to make it to f/8. If I need to use any front standard bellows movement the 60/4 [Bogen Wide Angle] gives me a little extra coverage because it was made for enlarging 60X60 rather than 24X36. I prefer enlarging lenses for this purpose. A lens with a helical mount or maybe even a built in shutter will involve hanging a lot of weight at the front end of the bellows. Another lens I have used this way is a 150/5.6 Rodagon.
    the op is looking for a lens to use on a motion picture camera, which doesn't have bellows.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  10. #30
    AgX
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    On a professional cine-camera one can mount a lot of optics and accessories including a bellows. Dan has been hinting at special optics including extension tubes already.

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