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  1. #1

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    Help set me up - 35/120 - B&W/C-41

    Hi All

    Well I have a Mamiya 6 + 3 lenses on the way. I have read so much on this site that I think I have forgotten almost everything I've read. It's confusing for a new guy. Any way I need some roll film so I have up to $1000AUD to spend at B&H (customs). I have posted it here as Aussies are more likely to be aware of what can/can't be shipped and what's cheaper at vanbar

    B&W
    Film - HP5
    Developer - HC110
    Stop - Ilfostop Stop Bath (500ml)
    Fix - Ilford rapid fixer (500ml, 1L, 5L) - How quick is this used up. What size?
    I'm tossing up between Rodinal and HC-110. It doesn't look like Rodinal is available at B&H. I'm after a general developer with long shelf life. Maybe ID-11 powder might be better?

    C-41
    This is where I need help. I want to use Kodak flexicolor chemicals (or fuji if cheaper) but there are SM, LORR, RA types. What give the best shelf life + cheapest cost per roll? I don't mind replenishing.
    Film - portra 400, ektar 100
    Developer - ?
    Bleach - ?
    Fix - ?
    Stabiliser -not needed for new film? I have access to distilled water for final rinse,

    It seems that you have to buy huge quantities 25gal. Will this go off by the time I get around to using it. Fuji seems to have smaller quantities available. Or, does anyone in Adelaide require c-41 chemicals maybe I could order and then split?

    Sorry to ask for so much help in one hit

    Cheers

    Nathan

  2. #2
    hpulley's Avatar
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    Rapid fixer lasts a long time, does around 20-24 rolls per mixed 1+4 litre of working solution.

    HC-110 is good for long shelf life, as long as you use it from concentrate (ie. Don't make a stock solution). DD-X or ID-11 may give slightly smaller grain, different tonal curve. Microphen works very well too, let's you shoot HP5+ at 500 EI.

    You still need Final Rinse/Stabilizer with new C-41 films. Distilled water is not enough.

    I too can only order Kodak chemicals in 40L quantities so I've been using the 3-bath JOBO kit that PE does not recommend. It works for me, sounds like I'd get lower grain and contrast with a separate bleach step. It is supposed to last a long time and I do shoot around 100 rolls/year which would use up 40L one shot in a year or so but it still seems like a lot to keep on hand.
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  3. #3
    2F/2F's Avatar
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    The Stabilizer has been replaced by Final Rinse, which serves the same basic purpose, but with a different formulation. Final Rinse or Stabilizer are necessary parts of the process. Stabilizer is required for older products, such as Vericolor; Final Rinse won't due, as it lacks Formalin. Stabilizer can be used for newer films, however.
    2F/2F

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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by nathan96 View Post
    Any way I need some roll film so I have up to $1000AUD to spend at B&H (customs). I have posted it here as Aussies are more likely to be aware of what can/can't be shipped and what's cheaper at vanbar
    When you add up your order from B&H, you'll find that items that are either particularly heavy or particularly bulky will really blow out the shipping costs. So I tend to order the more expensive but smaller/lighter items (such as film & smaller paper sizes) from overseas, but I buy liquid chemicals locally even though the unit price is higher.

    Just make sure you get a total shipping price on any B&H order before you click "submit order"

  5. #5

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    Yeah I've just gone through a few iterations of shopping baskets at B&H. It will be cheaper for me to buy the chems from Vanbar.

    I thought I had read that final rinse is just photo-flo to stop water spots.

    If not than I will make sure to pick up some stabiliser or final rinse.

  6. #6
    largeformat pat's Avatar
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    I would try and find one shot chemicals,(Tetenal) I would suggest not replenishing. Also you really have to watch your temperature with C41. Might I suggest finding a good lab to dev your C41 and you print what you desire? I also would recommend a stab bath, you don't have to worry then which film your are processing.
    What grain............................................. ...............
    Oh sorry, I forgot you don't shoot Large Format
    Large format Pat.

    http://www.largeformatpat.com

  7. #7
    Athiril's Avatar
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    You can get everything from Vanbar in terms of chemicals. And if you cant find it you can give them the Kodak catalogue number and special order it.

    The LORR developer is cheap, the LORR starter is on there too now due to a special order, just search LORR in the search box, it may not show up unless searching for it.

    That's developer and starter, the concentrates last & last, just mix it up as you need it, either one shot or replenished, I can help you with replenished if needed. But you need to use and replenish every few weeks to make it last continually (the mixed up stuff that is).

    Bleach lasts. Fixer lasts (I use Kodak E-6 fixer on Vanbar site, excellent stuff 10L worth for $7)

    Bleach is a bit of a problem, you may be able to get smaller quantity stuff via a Kodak catalogue order via vanbar. Should be able to get that.

    Otherwise your other options is Potassium Ferricyanide bleach, which you can get from vanbar which makes a LOT of bleach. You will need to stop after developing, rinse then bleach, rinse, bleach clear, rinse etc, before continuing on to fix with this. (I use homebrand white vinegar ~1+9 for stop one shot when I want to stop, it's $1 for 2L at woolies, that means 20L of working one-shot stop, or you cold make it a lot stronger and keep re-using it as stop).

    Sodium Sulphite for bleach clearing bath, very cheap again.

    Other than the special order or SM bleach (already on Vanbar) you can special order ECN-2 bleach, it's ~$68 for 33.3 litres worth ($68 from Kodak, it'll probs be another +10-15% from ordering via vanbar, not much though), I don't think it's the ferricyanide bleach but I'd have to check



    Replenishing is not hard, and temperature is not hard to maintain either, in fact it's damn easy over the 3m 15s for developing in a plastic tank.

    Stabiliser is needed if you intend to run E-6 through C-41 as cross-process, or for films 10+ years old, it'll help, but otherwise, just final rinse, or photoflo.

    Though Stabiliser is only $36 for 100L working solution from Vanbar, it's more expensive than photoflo, but cheaper than final rinse intended for C-41 iirc.
    Last edited by Athiril; 09-25-2011 at 06:59 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #8

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    Thanks Anthril, Perfect

    If bleach lasts. I think I'll use the SM bleach. At least in the beginning.
    Same with the stab/final rinse/photoflo. I'll just use Flex III Stab & rep >100lt

    I know I have Sodium sulfite and Potassium Ferricyanide in the lab so I can test these out later

    2 follow up up questions

    - Do you have a link to the instruction for making the Potassium Ferricyanide and Sodium Sulfite solutions. I came across LINK via google but it lists both in the same solution

    - Do you have a link to the replenishment rates for Paterson tank use. I sounds like an unused working solution still requires replenishment? If that's the case I might swing between one shot and replenishment depending on how much I'm shooting.

    Thanks again

  9. #9
    Athiril's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how many rolls you'll get out of the SM bleach.. there should be a PDF from Kodak on it though.

    Though it's best to stop after developer to make the bleach last longer.

    You'll need potassium or sodium bromide to make the ferri bleach.. actually sodium chloride works great too.


    Unused working solution doesn't require replenishment, but if you leave working solution sitting doing nothing it gets old, and might oxidise on you, I haven't tested it out, but I have gone a few weeks between usage fine, but when I do that, I make sure my bottle is full with no air, and even spray in butane gas (cheap canned air/duster for pc's/cameras) in the top to displace all air, and then keep it in the dark. You just want to use it semi-regularly, that way fresh developer and fresh preservative is getting put into the solution on a semi-regular basis at least.

    I would use the SR-29 Bleach Formula for a ferricyanide bleach. Found here on page 32. http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploa...h247_h2407.pdf


    Replenishment rates are in: http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/...ls/z131_02.pdf

    Use the ones for rack-and-tank processors.

    The amounts you need to mix up for small solutions are found in:
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...is49/cis49.pdf

    make sure you pay attention to which flexicolor product you get, as the amounts you use are different.

    That's for mixing up replenisher (replenisher is what you use when replenishing). If you scroll further down there are instructions for making working solution from replenisher.


    If you do use it one shot it's ~33 35mm rolls for a 10L dev, although you could try to apply the tetenal re-usage rule (I can't imagine it wouldn't work as well as it does in the tetenal kit, but it would require a test of a few rolls running through the same batch first though!), and use it non-replenished but re-use for a little bit then toss out.

  10. #10

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    Nathan, don't forget that the $1000 limit also INCLUDES the cost of postage, so whatever you order must include postage and still be under the limit.
    Mike

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