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  1. #1
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Modern Rodinal Substitutes Part II

    Apologies for having to start a new thread but I can't read or even access the first to reply to posts.

    So with a bit of telepathy

    Quote Originally Posted by Kirk Keyes View Post
    Well, there's a problem there, as it's really hard to measure pH accurately when it gets much above 12.5 or so. You have to start getting special electrodes and the like.

    But for MSDS work, it doesn't have to be too precise.
    __________________
    Kirk

    A point that's being missed is that A&O give a figure of 2.7% Potassium Hydroxide not 3% in older Agfa MSDS.

    The pH is around 14 sure, but the actual requirement is the pH of the working dilute solution rather than the concentrate which is given elsewhere as pH 11.55, which I commented on in the first post of the thread.

    Way back Ron (PE) mentioned adjustments to Rodinal before bottling, the question we need to ask is are they adjusting on the basis of the concentrate, or also doing some tests on a dilute sample, as this will be a far more accurate indicator.

    Can someone please post a link to this continuation on the original post.

    Ian

  2. #41
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Kodak is the only one that publishes such a chart. Go here:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...?pq-path=14053 and take your pick.

    PE

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    ^^^ Going by Kodak's chart... what about XTOL 1:1 or 1:2? Wouldn't diluting the developer open up shadow detail? How would this affect acutance?

  4. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Kodak is the only one that publishes such a chart. Go here:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/profe...?pq-path=14053 and take your pick.

    PE
    I have seen that chart many times, although I am not sure that there is an absolute "Best developer" available, even though there are some particular B&W film and developer combinations that seem to be very well matched for each other.
    I have always liked the "LOOK" of FP4 Plus and HP5 Plus in D-76 1:1, although I sometimes get the urge to try something different like Pyro or dilute Perceptol/Microdol-X. I think it is for the best that I simply stick with what I am familiar with though.
    BTW, Ilford provide a similar chart.

  5. #44
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    If you look at the chart, you see quite a bit of "room" for moving the tokens around. There are developers that I know of that can do what XTOL does or even better. There was lots of R&D room left even though there is no magic bullet that can move all 3 tokens to the highest position.

    Rodinal is probably in the range of XTOL and HC-110, IDK not having done a direct comparison. It does suggest though that there are few old time developers that are really top notch and I know of modern ones that are better. If you wish to make a subjective comparison then look at XTOL vs Microdol-X or D-76. This compares films with modern and old style developers.

    PE

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    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith Tapscott. View Post
    BTW, Ilford provide a similar chart.
    Keith;

    I provided the URL to Kodak. Would you please supply the Ilford equivalent?

    Oh, and I appreciate knowing that Kodak is not the only one to publish that type of chart.

    Thanks.

    PE
    Last edited by Photo Engineer; 08-30-2009 at 04:41 PM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Added a line.

  7. #46

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    Pyrocat-P and Pyrocat-PC look like interesting alternatives to Agfa-Photo Rodinal.

  8. #47
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    I could supply potassium p-aminophenolate, but it is so sensitive to oxidation that I would have to ship it in concentrated potassium sulfite solution. Would that be alright?
    Gadget Gainer

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    What developers/dev. agents do you know to be better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    There are developers that I know of that can do what XTOL does or even better... I know of modern ones that are better. PE
    What films do these data apply to, most strictly, in your knowledge/opinion?

    (How were these charts actually constructed?
    The developers are mentioned, but on what films?
    Was there any "weighting" of the results that you know of? (80% modern 20%traditonal... or some such? )

    BTW
    What developers/dev. agents do you know to be better?

  10. #49
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gainer View Post
    I could supply potassium p-aminophenolate, but it is so sensitive to oxidation that I would have to ship it in concentrated potassium sulfite solution. Would that be alright?
    Would you buy it as R09 from Calbe and sell it as Gainerol

    There's an interesting cemical called "Oxygen Scavenger" which is sold by a bulk photographic chemical supplier.

    I've never seen it in any published formulae but it's sold in liquid form in sizes up to 1000 litre IBC's - Ammonium Bisulphite

    Ian

  11. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Keith;

    I provided the URL to Kodak. Would you please supply the Ilford equivalent?

    Oh, and I appreciate knowing that Kodak is not the only one to publish that type of chart.

    Thanks.

    PE
    I looked on Ilford`s site, but I can not find it there now. The publications that I have are rather old, so perhaps they are updating them.
    There is one for FILM CHEMICALS-LOW VOLUME (no mention of DDX, as it wasn`t introduced at the time this publication was made available) and another for FILM CHEMICALS- HIGH VOLUME for use in Deep-Tanks and Processors with replenishment.
    I found the one for low volume chemicals on another website. See page 3 (2.2).
    http://www.darkroom.ru/info/manuals/...manual_eng.pdf

    Ilford also provide information for choosing film developers in the technical information publications for their films, i.e. Maximum Sharpness, Finest Grain or Best overall image quality etc.



 

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