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  1. #11
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    Xerox and Kodak have both shown versions of ZINK type technology. Xerox was using it for B&W news announcemnts at the local airport IIRC, as a trade trial, and also for a reusable newspaper that was blanked and had the new news downloaded to a memory chip in the paper matrix. It uses colored (white and black) spherical pigments that are caused to rotate in the paper matrix based on a charge differential.

    The Kodak version is based on OLEDs and creates a print on a sheet of paper like material which can be folded and rolled up. (OLEDS = Organic LEDs) It could produce a 20" color image that you can fold up and put in your pocket.

    So, I think that big advances in imaging of this type may overwhelm the production of Polaroid type prints. This is not the equivalent of endorsing digital, as these images need not be digital.

    PE

  2. #12
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    If it was cheap, easy and - here's the kicker - profitable, someone would have picked it up already. It's none of the three.

    Regards, Art.
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
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  3. #13
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    I think you would see small scale paper production (or maybe a hand coat-able AZO emulsion hint hint PE )long before small scale instant film production.

    The tech involved instant films is actually pretty staggering.

  4. #14

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    I wouldn't endorse digital at all. I own one digital camera, which I use for quick snapshots, but I prefer 35mm, instant, etc anyday!

    Wonder when they'll close the savepolaroid site, now that theres pretty much no hope?

    Now I can sit back and wait for us to have this conversation all over again when Kodak, FUJI, ILFORD etc. suddenly stop making 35mm. Then we'll probably hear more of a ruckus. I know I'll be ticked off!

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by amuderick View Post
    That tells me the art market for instant film is much smaller than Polaroid fans are willing to admit.
    What it should tell you is that unsaleable's prices are outrageous if you don't live in Europe, and even then they're pretty high. I'd buy some Choco if it wasn't going to cost me Time-Zero prices per exposure, and then that much again to ship it.
    The camera is the most incidental element of photography.

  6. #16
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    In the labs, we used to get 5x7 pieces of the film, the reciever and a box of pods. We also had rails and other parts of the film unit. We had a set of tempered rollers.

    What we had to do, in the dark, was assemble all of this into a functioning film pack (after exposure) and then run it through the rollers to test the film. This was a daunting, time consuming job that was done at high speed at Kodak by the COMAM (COntinuous Motion Assembly Machine) and the RAMs and FAMS (I forget the expansion of these from the acronym).

    These machines were expensive and difficult to maintain and represent technology of the 80s. They would be barely economical to run let alone move or build from scratch. Among other things, the equipment must be perfectly aligned to prevent problems during high speed operation.

    Good luck to anyone trying.

    PE

  7. #17

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    The original Polaroid roll film was hand assembled in complete darkness because there was no assembly equipment. After a few hours people started to go batty in the dark. Visual hallucinations and such. IIRC, Land moved to hire blind workers because they had no problems working in the dark for long hours.

    okto, my point is that if people aren't willing to pay Unsaleable's prices for a custom batch of film (which is awesome stuff BTW), then it proves that any special batch is not a sustainable proposition.

    As for ZINK, I am not excited. This product has been vaporware for quite some time and I firmly believe it will remain that way.

  8. #18
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    CC, if you aren't familiar with Land's story, his biography by McElheny would be a very interesting read. Despite a virtually limitless research budget, Land barely got instant films to work within Polaroid's own financial constraints. More than once, Land was within days or hours of a hard delivery deadline for a product that wasn't yet working. What impressed me in the biography is how much risk he assumed, and how masterful a salesman he was.... It's quite a story.

    You might say, well, we already have the formulas, we can reproduce them. That's correct, though bringing a product to market in a viable way would be very tough. Here is one way I suppose that it might be done on a small scale: it might be possible to persuade someone to make the separate pos and neg sheets and the goop and then get people to do the rest themselves. The one sheet is "just" a complicated layer-cake of dyes and chemicals which one could look up in a patent. As for packed and podded pack films ready to shoot... fahgedaboudit!

    So goop-it-yourself is the best hope for LF polaroid, I'm afraid. :rolleyes:

    So I think beyond that we must keep Fuji-san in the business as long as we can, by using their current products.

    P.S. I don't know what the numbers are, but my suspicion is that polaroid made more profit from the plastic polarizer materials than the instant films. At a glance, I was very, very impressed by the intricacies of the polaroid process. Getting those films to work as viable commercial products was a spectacular accomplishment. So spectacular that, frankly, I don't think it'd be easier to accomplish now, even if we had modern PhDs and the basic recipes in front of us.
    Last edited by keithwms; 04-30-2008 at 07:57 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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  9. #19
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    Keith;

    Remember that Land could not get it to work in his labs and hired Kodak to do his R&D and the initial few years of production for him! Kodak did all of that development work under contract.

    In addition, in your scheme of things, who makes all of the dozens of specialized organic chemicals for you if you wish to DIY, and who does the solvent coating, as some of this is done from flammable organic solvents IIRC.

    PE

  10. #20

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    Well, I guess I could always convert my 104 into a camera obscura and draw on paper. But of course, as soon as I did that, they'd quit making drawing paper. So then I'd have to switch to notebook paper, which would then itself be discontinued. Ha ha, but alas, I can make my own paper. Paper is easy to make. In china, paper is made from bamboo. So they'll never be able to discontinue art as long as someone knows how to make, or is willing to try to make, the medium.

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