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  1. #41
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eddie View Post
    "Better" is subjective.
    OK. Technically better.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  2. #42
    Toffle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pen s View Post
    I'm new to APUG so forgive my ignorance. Here is my question.
    Why would anyone go on the 'Toy Camera' forum and then put down toy camera users? After all, this is the TOY CAMERA FORUM! For instance, I have not the slightest interest in instant photography. But I would never denigrate anyone wanting to use instant photography to express their vision. A Holga in the right hands (that's not mine) can produce some really interesting work. I've seen photography from all kinds of cameras that I like and from all kinds of cameras I find dull and boring. And I assure all that I am an expert on dull and boring because I have produced enough of it in my own darkroom.
    Very well put.
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by pen s View Post
    I'm new to APUG so forgive my ignorance. Here is my question.
    Why would anyone go on the 'Toy Camera' forum and then put down toy camera users? After all, this is the TOY CAMERA FORUM! For instance, I have not the slightest interest in instant photography. But I would never denigrate anyone wanting to use instant photography to express their vision. A Holga in the right hands (that's not mine) can produce some really interesting work. I've seen photography from all kinds of cameras that I like and from all kinds of cameras I find dull and boring. And I assure all that I am an expert on dull and boring because I have produced enough of it in my own darkroom.
    Thanks for standing up and saying this! I made an attempt myself to say something earlier in the thread to no avail. Let's hope those that wish to debate toy camera users do so and do it in the Ethics forum. All else here is rude and sad. This was a Price Alert thread of a brand of cameras that went on sale folks. I'm not even a toy camera user but find some terrible injustice of their approach to photography questioned. Shouldn't pinhole also be attacked and other photographers using meniscus lenses too, if image quality and dependability are often made as the major tenant of their point....

    These threads tire me so, like we are at some other forum debating a new Nikon v Canon....

  4. #44
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pen s View Post
    I'm new to APUG so forgive my ignorance. Here is my question.
    Why would anyone go on the 'Toy Camera' forum and then put down toy camera users? After all, this is the TOY CAMERA FORUM! For instance, I have not the slightest interest in instant photography. But I would never denigrate anyone wanting to use instant photography to express their vision. A Holga in the right hands (that's not mine) can produce some really interesting work.
    Very good point, and there's no ignorance there at all. If fashion is driving some significant proportion of film photographers today, let's go with it. If a few of them do great work by playing with the random and not-so-random artifacts of toy cameras, then that encourages more people to try analogue. If some of them choose to go deeper, then all the better.

    Freestyle does a fantastic job of promoting analogue photography in the educational environment, and part of that effort involves meeting the customers half-way. If young people want to try shooting film with a toy camera because they think it's cool, I'd say that's better way of learning about analogue photography than downloading Hipstamatic on an iPhone. Realistically, that's the alternative.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
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  5. #45
    eddie's Avatar
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    I've met many young people to whom Holgas have been the "gateway drug" to a serious interest in film photography. It's good for all of us.

  6. #46
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joe VanCleave View Post
    Conversely, one could argue that toy cameras are consuming more 35mm color film, and hence requiring more associated lab services, than any other sector of the amateur market, including legacy camera fondlers.

    I don't know if it's the build quality of toy cameras versus legacy cameras (plastic vs. metal), or a generational divide ("them young 'uns"), that gets people's hackles up. Seems kind of hypocritical to be circling the film wagons against the onslaught of digital photography while leaving our plastic-bodied camera fans out in the cold just because they don't pass some arbitrary quality standard.

    I like the marketing model of Lomo, especially with the new LomoKino. It's sure to create a bigger demand for color photo processing. And as an aside, I don't see the necessity to use exclusively Lomo-branded film in a Lomo camera. I find the 4-packs of el-cheapo Kodak or Fuji film works fine, and is purchased locally.

    Another factlette: I get many digital-camera-captured images printed at local photo lab on RA-4 paper also. So I don't see a direct connection between such labs and the decline of film photography.

    As long as outfits like Lomo and Holga and their ilk are manufacturing newly-designed film cameras (which they are), I'm all for them. I sure as hell don't see Canikon, et al, marketing newly-designed, high-build-quality film cameras. Put up or shut up.

    ~Joe
    We've been through this so many times recently. The war's over and film got run into the hills. Cheap, mass market C-41 processing is dead or drawing its last breath in much of N. America. Where cheap dry lab printing survives, there's often no film processing offered any longer or what's on offer sucks. Film sales are not resurgent and I'm not seeing sales data to suggest toy cameras are leading the charge to markedly higher film consumption. I'd be very pleased if the lo-fi camera movement did this but so far it just ain't happenin' in my area.

  7. #47

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    I used to use a lab in an area that was located between two hipster centrals and last time I was there, the wall of film was still there but slimmed down and the old lineups out the door, no longer out the door. If plastic is popular, I'm not seeing them buying film and shooting very much. Maybe they're all b/w and processing at home ? dunno. They are buying expired film at camera shows which in all honestly, isn't helping anyone afaic.

    Considering there's a Lomo store in Toronto now, I would have figured labs would be doing better.

    btw, I have and shoot plastic pretty often but am not averse to cameras with more precision or, non analgoue or require hiding under big pieces of cloth.

  8. #48
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Fashion has local and global aspects, of course. I don't see Urban Outfitter trying to enter the camera market beyond Lomo, Holgas, and Fuji Instax, but if they're in the stores, there's a good probability that they're selling. Photography is totally peripheral to their product, so they're not in business to do any favors for film photography. They stock cameras, because they turn a profit. What is remarkable to me is that there about half a dozen shops in the NYU area and several more in Brooklyn selling plastic cameras and film, and it's not too unusual to see people on the street carrying not only these cameras, but also more sophisticated analogue cameras, and the toy camera context has generated interest and respect for traditional photography.

    Maybe it isn't happening in everyone's neighborhood, and maybe there's a certain lack of enthusiasm for the idea of young people who can afford high rents and can justify spending a lot of money on a plastic photographic fashion accessory, but they are part of our analogue photography world, and we all benefit from their activity. Money spent on analogue photography of any sort is, after all, money not spent on many less worthwhile things, and I can't think of any good reason to discourage it.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  9. #49
    Toffle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    We've been through this so many times recently.
    Ya, tedious ain't it? Every time someone suggests anything positive about film photography, they are drowned out by a chorus of naysayers who seem intent on the first and the last person to declare the death of film. But instead of conceding defeat, I choose to be a passionate supporter of all things film. Instead of cyinical, I am hopeful. Instead of labeling any new initiative as futile, I celebrate that we have film to shoot. Instead of jeers I choose cheers. Call me stupid, (but come to my door and try it to my face, it takes no courage at all to insult others on the internet) but every time I read a comment declaring the death of film, I feel like reaching for a film camera and firing off a roll. Being positive and hopeful is more than a naive chorus of "kumbaya"... it encourages others that at least for today the film community is alive and kicking ass. I would be ashamed to think that someone looking for reasons to buy a film camera would find exactly the opposite, here on APUG.
    Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada

    Ansel Adams had the Zone System... I'm working on the points system. First I points it here, and then I points it there...

    http://tom-overton-images.weebly.com


  10. #50
    CGW
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    I would be ashamed to think that someone looking for reasons to buy a film camera would find exactly the opposite, here on APUG.

    I guess you find a little honesty embarrassing. Sorry!

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