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  1. #121

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    Quote Originally Posted by Felinik View Post
    So, after contemplating around this subject and the content in this discussion, my conclusion so far is that the use of technical processes to make photographs less "perfect", is indeed a part of the composition, an additional dimension is probably what I would call it, based on a reaction towards perfection or not.
    there is no such thing as perfect ... look at all the silver bullet chasers, look at all the people trying one film one developer one paper after another
    look at all the people who buy 7 or 10 cameras a year to find which one suits them best ... there is never something flawless, it is the
    flawlessness where one finds beauty, otherwise people would just have everything made by a prototype machine. japanese have something
    called wabi-sabi that touches upon this ...

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson View Post
    Whether we end up liking it or not is entirely subjective. One man's ceiling is another man's floor; either a picture grabs our attention, or it doesn't.
    We often make the assumption that people understand and care about the expensive pieces of art they are buying. You can kill any technically sound image by calling it kitsch, regardless of its aesthetic and artistic merit. If you are rich and want to impress your peers with your (non existent) sense of art, you throw big bucks at something that looks like the truck image brought up by Felinik.

    Art galleries are bound to account for that.
    Trying to be the best of whatever I am, even if what I am is no good.

  3. #123

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    Originally Posted by Thomas Bertilsson
    I guess I feel that the grain can add to an image as much as someone else might think it subtracts, but in the end it just IS, and we live with it. We all have different opinions of what we like and dislike.
    The best images to me are the ones where the grain disappears, not in the print itself, but in your mind. In other words, the composition and other aspects of the images are so strong that you don't even see the grain. Some perhaps can't get past the grain to see what else is there.

    -Rob

  4. #124
    Thomas Bertilsson's Avatar
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    What's up with the blur and grain?

    Quote Originally Posted by rbultman View Post
    The best images to me are the ones where the grain disappears, not in the print itself, but in your mind. In other words, the composition and other aspects of the images are so strong that you don't even see the grain. Some perhaps can't get past the grain to see what else is there.

    -Rob
    Yes. I personally don't really care about the grain. It's what's beyond the grain that matters.
    "Often moments come looking for us". - Robert Frank

    "Make good art!" - Neil Gaiman

    "...the heart and mind are the true lens of the camera". - Yousuf Karsh

  5. #125

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    Felinik: Aside from the possible Marketing explanation I proposed earlier, I don't think you're going to get any real answers. In the end all these types of discussions collapse into an inevitable singularity regarding the essence of what makes good or bad or popular photography (or art in general). Grain, seeing through grain, leading a viewer's eye, "communication", composition etc. are all red herrings in my opinion. Either you dig it or you don't. And any reason is valid. That's all there is to it.

    One man's perfectly composed, perfectly timed, perfectly exposed, perfectly printed, perfectly communicative masterpiece is another man's piece-o-crap. And the same goes for an out of focus, grainy, underexposed, stained, badly "composed", polytoned, lith whatever.

  6. #126

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    Getting a "real answer" does not appear to be the goal. He/she is interested in chatting about the topic with no real goal in mind. Unfortunately the discussion started with that singularity about the essense of what makes good or bad or popular photography.

  7. #127

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    I don't think you're going to get any real answers. ...Either you dig it or you don't. And any reason is valid. That's all there is to it.
    Of course we like something for a reason. You just don't like banana bread because you just dig banana bread. A 5 year old might say I just don't like Claude Monet but if you're actually studying art you should be able to discuss why you do or don't like something.
    Like I said before, we don't say that some seafood is good and some seafood is bad because there are a bunch of people out there that just happen to not like seafood. There actually is a bunch of standards including freshness and preparation that distinguish good seafood from bad seafood. The red herring is the person who comes to a cooking contest and says "I just don't dig seafood."

  8. #128

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    I'm not sure seafood is a good example because if the standards are not followed you end up in the hospital.

    In art, I'm disputing the importance of these "standards". Of course people can explain why they like or don't like something (sometimes they can't, and that's ok too). But I don't think it matters whether or not positive emotional responses are based on standards. Often we see positive comments in the APUG gallery like "Strong composition", "Nice tonality", "the lines draw the viewer's eye...", "perfect balance", "excellent use of negative space" etc. If it were one of my photos I'd much rather someone said "I really like this". All that other academic crap leaves me cold.

    I just think there are many, many valid reasons one might have for enjoying something they see, and in the end standards are irrelevant. And I say this as a someone who practices the straightest of straight photography and is obsessive about quality and detail.

    We could get into actual examples to make this more interesting - particularly when it comes to communication in art, but I think much of what I have to say would be heresy....

  9. #129

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael R 1974 View Post
    I just think there are many, many valid reasons one might have for enjoying something they see, and in the end standards are irrelevant.
    Honestly this doesn't make sense to me. You believe there are many valid reasons for appreciating art, and then you say reasons are irrelevant. If they're irrelevant, then how are they valid?

    Are there good reasons for appreciating one work for art and not another, or is what you put up in a gallery just a crap shoot, or the results of a democracy of meaningless opinions?

  10. #130

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    I just don't dig bananas. Banana bread is OK, but the raw fruit... I just don't dig. Don't know why either.



 

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