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  1. #11

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    <Does the record of the existence of a tree, a stream, clouds in a sky, the interior of a temple, address anything about the conditions that human beings experience?>

    No, but the choice of HOW to record it does. Compositional and relational decisions made in photographing allow us to reorder the world in a distinctly human way. The fact that the result isn't "wholly new" diminishes nothing and only shows that as an art -- as an act of re-creation rather than creation -- it's just more firmly bounded by the human condition than other forms of expression (maybe even uniquely suited to exploring it?)

  2. #12
    bjorke's Avatar
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    There's a line in the otherwise jumbled and dreary movie Mrs Parker and the Vicious Circle where Dotty opines something like: "I just cant see the word 'artist' as very flexible. If I did I'm sure I'd be much better company."

    "What Would Zeus Do?"
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  3. #13
    Mike Richards's Avatar
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    I once visited the caves at Altimira, Spain and wondered why some cave man did the famous paintings there some 30,000 years ago. I don't know the answer, but I'm reasonably sure we share the motivation.
    Mike Richards' Mobile Me gallery, including the Holocaust and Turkey Expo.

  4. #14
    Curt's Avatar
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    I once visited the caves at Altimira, Spain and wondered why some cave man did the famous paintings there some 30,000 years ago. I don't know the answer, but I'm reasonably sure we share the motivation.
    With nothing better to do they discovered by accident that things in the environment make marks on other things. Then they found that the things they made marks of looked like things in the environment.

    It took 30,000 years to get to the stuff that looks like things that make marks on things that don't look like things in the environment. We call that Art.
    Everytime I find a film or paper that I like, they discontinue it. - Paul Strand - Aperture monograph on Strand

  5. #15

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    Art is a piece of work that you HATE to part with , the rest of work is what gets you to that piece...

    ILYA

  6. #16
    jovo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    With music, although it does not have a visual referent, it has an auditory referent to sound. While it would be possible, I suppose, to compose a piece of music that had no auditory referent to any known or recognizable sound, it would be utterly unintelligible.
    Very little music lasts very long without being part of some lineage or another. Even the serialists maintained traditional instruments (for the most part) when they departed from tonality. And that entire era will most likely end up as a footnote a hundred years hence because it strayed too far from what the listener could agreeably appreciate or even comprehend.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    It sounds to me like you're just suffering from that age-old photographer's angst - "is what I do 'ART'?". Photos of rocks and trees and even other manmade objects remain at the level of representational records when no effort is exerted to structure that representation in such a way as to ADD meaning to the image.
    For the most part I agree, but I think, if 'art' is made at all, it becomes so because the photographer experiences an emotional resonance and connection with the subject whatever it is, and in whatever style it is photographed. It becomes something even more significant when the viewer senses that emotional energy. I am highly dubious about whether or not 'meaning' has much to do with it, hence the uniqueness of musical, or visual work on its own terms.
    Last edited by jovo; 06-07-2007 at 02:12 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    John Voss

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  7. #17

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    How does illustration of these "known objects" lead to any universal acceptance by others and how does the illustration of these "known objects" speak to the matters of hope, fear, despair, lonliness, joy, sorrow, hunger, plenty, peace, or unrest within the soul of man?
    __________________

    I just had a look at your work on the website. It seems that of the above list the only item you address is joy as it is a joy to view them. Photography is about vision and Vision. The eye sees but Vision is in the Mind. The camera only records. You may already have your answer:

    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.


    There can only be emotional risk to acheive what you seek. You must see a starving child before you can speak of that Vision.

    Doyle
    It is easier to gain enlightenment than to explain enlightenment.
    Supreme Master Ching Hai

  8. #18
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    Roger Hicks:
    We are all born artists.

    Roger, think twice.


    D. Miller
    … working in traditional photography.

    This statement disqualify you as an artist. The way of thinking is in question. (There is no traditional photography, I think you are pointing on art…).

    What defines artistic output?

    Artist.
    Artist is a guy that makes nearly perfect work with a great easiness (to other it takes very long time). What is very important (today) as a part of his (artist's) work to emphase is also his deep concentration while work, concentration by instinct not command. Connect this statement with my fist (... disqualify ...) statement.

    We are different than trees or whatever in Nature. Human as a clone can be compared to events in Nature.

    What you make is a simple illustration or art no one can say now, but the best judge are your friends artists, which you will find in internet 1 of 99999999999999999999999 cases.

    www.Leica-R.com

  9. #19
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    Irrespective of medium, representationality, or message, art to me is about an act of creation. And I don't mean this in a religious sense.

    Creation is about ownership. It's about bringing something into being that is yours. With pure art it's about bringing something into being that is non-functional, though a gray zone exists with architecture, furniture-making, and even disciplines of entertainment.

    When at least an element of your creation is non-functional, you have made that creative choice for aesthetic (or perhaps philosophical or narrative) reasons that don't require function, or efficiency, or economy.

    To me there is an impulse in many of us to be creative. And whether the fruits of our creativity are representational or not doesn't matter so much -- they all stem from the same drive.


    Incidentally, I've done some reading about musical aesthetics, and as I understand it most music really does not have much resemblance to naturally occurring sounds. Bird songs are atonal, for instance. Pieces of classical music that evoke nature (Beethoven's Pastorale, Vivaldi's Four Seasons, Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, etc) don't really sound much like actual nature. I suppose the second movement of Mahler's 7th Symphony sounds a bit like bird songs, but in a very stylized way.

    One exception to this is the African tama (the talking drum), which to an amazing degree mimics the inflections of the tonal languages (esp. in Nigeria).
    Paul

  10. #20
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    As an aside, if you want to go on a musical journey (referring to the discussion about music as an audible medium only), check out 1970's recordings from a band called Tangerine Dream. If you don't get any visual stimulation at all listening to their music, you should try again. You probably won't like it, most people don't, but they did have an idea of how to visualize art with sound.
    I'm sure that a few illegal 'additives' were ingested one way or another during the creation of this music, but it's interesting to know that the lead character Edgar Froese was a student of Salvador Dali. He is not a concert pianist, but he is an interesting musician, and an artist with a fairly unique approach.

    If you actually like this, which I don't think you will, also check out Klaus Schulze (especially 'Timewind') and Karl-Heinz Stockhausen.

    Check it out, if you don't like the music, you can send it to me....

    - Thomas

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