Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 68,684   Posts: 1,482,249   Online: 1063
      
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18

Thread: Transparency

  1. #11
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Montréal (QC)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,348
    Images
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by DrPablo View Post
    Where is it established that we don't look "through" paintings and drawings? In fact the more abstract the painting the more I find myself looking through it.
    My point exactly. What I mean is that implicitly, when people argue for the transparency of photograph, we reject the idea of seeing through paintings.

    On APUG itself you will find a certain number of arguments to the effect that a drawing is a product of the mind while a photograph is a direct trace of the real.

    I don't think we disagree much you and I so I'll go back to answering the other concerns in the thread!
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

    My APUG Portfolio

  2. #12
    Daniel_OB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Mississauga, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    420
    Fiction in painting is indeed more accepted than it is in photography.

    There is no fiction in photography.

    www.Leica-R.com

  3. #13
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Montréal (QC)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,348
    Images
    132
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_OB View Post
    Fiction in painting is indeed more accepted than it is in photography.

    There is no fiction in photography.

    www.Leica-R.com
    I would gladly like to have your explanation for this argument.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

    My APUG Portfolio

  4. #14
    Matthew Gorringe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    461
    Images
    25
    When I choose to photograph in black and white it isn't out of a sense of nostalgia but because I want the abstraction that comes from reducing things to shades of grey. Given that any photograph or painting portrays only what it does and not the rest of the world it is at best an edited or constructed truth. I guess you could think about NASA or spy plane images as the ultimate truth showing all of the world in an objective way. So I think most people accept that there are degrees of transparency in photography.

    As to a hierarchy in visual images I think that this has been true in the public mind, that photography has been thought of as an accurate depiction of reality. The use of photography as a tool in the hands of NASA etc has given people a sense of the documentary value of photography.

    The example of the photo vs identikit in court is a moot one because you would probably have to identify a suspect from a line up. Your memory would likely be much better accepted than either image.

    As digital photography and image editing matures I still think people will still accept the photos they take as a true representation of their memories but are likely to become increasingly cynical about the truth contained in images in the public domain.

    For people who aspire to make art I think reality is a choice. Many of the photographs I most admire involve some departure from reality.

  5. #15
    DrPablo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    North Carolina
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    796
    Images
    63
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel_OB View Post
    There is no fiction in photography.
    You know the sound that the tie-fighters make in Star Wars? How they kind of scream by?

    That sound was created by mixing a recording of a braying elephant with the sound of a truck driving by. And Chewbacca's voice comes from recordings of a caged bear.

    These are recorded sounds, just as photographs are recorded light.

    But those sounds are all about fiction and imagination. So is photography in the right hands.
    Paul

  6. #16
    Daniel_OB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Mississauga, Canada
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    420
    DrPablo
    But those sounds are all about fiction and imagination. So is photography in the right hands.

    Everyone see on the photograph what he want to see. It can be and fiction as fly fly my train, but it is not what is on the photograph. Photograph canot show things that was not in front of the camera, otherwise it is not a photograph.

    By the way, as you are Americans, no fiction and imagination in American (art) photography. They are straight and read as straight. In American photography camera is "recording" device. See photograph of Avedon (he think that showing just any pore and line on the body can reflect inner soul, period), or see pictures of depression time photog W. Evans, say his church: frontal view with every singe detail, and church filled the frame. No space for imagination, it is simle church at that time and the moment he noticed, today the same church is very different (might in the shape of dust), but it is all. The next example could be Adams A. but too long. It is American literature, film, living,... and today too.

    Any "fiction" you can see in photography: go to my site and click on CANADA. See a photograph (actually a scann) of TWO-DIMENSIONAL building (and flying seagull on the right). What I see usually on it is: space ship all over closed windows, just like sealed, and seagull fly is escape to freedom. But my reading have many things connected with me. Actually non of that are fictions, no manipulation, but it can triger fictious thinking. What you see there it was there.

    But it is not in America. You shoud not snap such a photograph, nor see it.
    When Gary said "I want too see how the world looks on photogrpahs" he means only what he said, too see it, period.

    Have a nice day.

    www.Leica-R.com
    Last edited by Daniel_OB; 07-20-2007 at 08:51 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #17
    Joe VanCleave's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
    Shooter
    Pinhole
    Posts
    475
    In general terms, all 'media' are abstract; the nature of image-making is a process of mediation and abstraction. Painting an image of hunted animals on the walls of a cave is an abstraction that human-kind has been engaged in for tens of thousands of years. Obviously, you can't eat the painting, since it's only plant dye scratched onto stone.

    Yet images, and image-making, seem to hold a power over the human psyche that appears to be on a primal level; so deep that most can scarcely see the abstraction inherent in the process. When we watch a movie on TV, we don't see glowing electronic lights, but rather an abstracted, mentally projected series of images that is almost more real than reality itself, since it seems to come from inside ourselves.

    I think therefore that image-making is one property of our species that seperates us from the rest of nature, whose ramifications have not yet been fully explored, despite the best attempts by writers and artists of all ilks.

    The making of 'graven images' is something humans have been intimately engaged in since the species was new, it's just us photographers who like to pretend that these issues are all of recent vintage.

    There's also something deeper in connection between the words 'image' and 'imagination' besides the obvious common linguistic roots; perhaps we have been falsely termed a 'tool making' species instead of the more obvious 'image making' species that we really seem to be.

    ~Joe

  8. #18
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Montréal (QC)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,348
    Images
    132
    I'd like to underline something that Daniel_OB has mentioned with respect to photography in fiction. I'm not sure if it's by chance or by fact of experience, but his interpretation of the Realist-American/Fictional-Canadian difference in photography is very similar to the thesis held by Penny Cousineau-Levine in her book "Faking Death."

    She's a professor at the University of Ottawa, dept. of fine arts, and her book is pretty much the first book-length survey of Canadian art photography. She argues that, unlike American's Trancendentalist-inspired tradition of representing the Thing Itself, Canadian photographers represent subjectivity, use fiction a lot more, and are not about "literal" representations.

    Cf. for instance Edward Weston's insistence on rendering in excruciatingly precise details his subjects, with John Max's dreamy portraits http://www.netspaceproject.com/john-max/index.html
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

    My APUG Portfolio

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin