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Thread: Hot for Teacher

  1. #21

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    Ari,

    I'd much like to be in a state of having your problem. I am still doing the 101 stuff right now. Nevertheless may I dare to suggest you finding other visual artist (or may be even performing artists) who are *not* photographers to talk about your pictures and your goals of expression?
    In my opinion photographers are too near to each other in their means of expression to be of real help to each other on your advanced level.
    Photographers, especially amateurs, seem to tend to be somewhat technically biased in their visual perception. The best they can offer is something you already know. In the worst case they lead you to some standardization in style instead of helping you establishing and enhancing your own.

    Ulrich

    Postscriptum:

    I once saw a movie about the life of George Gershwin. There was a scene with Maurice Ravel. Gershwin wanted Ravel to teach him composition. Ravel rejected him as a student with the question: "Why do you want to become a 2nd grade Ravel instead of being a 1st class Gershwin?"
    Last edited by Ulrich Drolshagen; 04-09-2008 at 01:52 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  2. #22
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulrich Drolshagen View Post
    Postscriptum:

    I once saw a movie about the life of George Gershwin. There was a scene with Maurice Ravel. Gershwin wanted Ravel to teach him composition. Ravel rejected him as a student with the question: "Why do you want to become a 2nd grade Ravel instead of being a 1st class Gershwin?"
    Yeah! Like that!!
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  3. #23
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulrich Drolshagen View Post
    I once saw a movie about the life of George Gershwin. There was a scene with Maurice Ravel. Gershwin wanted Ravel to teach him composition. Ravel rejected him as a student with the question: "Why do you want to become a 2nd grade Ravel instead of being a 1st class Gershwin?"
    There is a variation on this story involving Schoenberg. Gershwin asked Schoenberg to take him as a student and Schoenberg said something like "I'd only make you a second-rate Schoenberg, but you are a good Gershwin already."

    I don't know why Gershwin would have asked Ravel for help, the contrary is more likely. Ravel's final piano concerto was written heavily under the influence of Gershwin. Gershwin pulled a number of people through into jazzy/bluesy American influenced post-classical music, including even Rachmaninoff.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  4. #24

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    Ari, compositionally and aesthetically I quite like your photos. Most of them don't move me much beyond that.

    Perhaps you should be more concerned with what you want to say than how to say it.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by middy View Post
    Ari, compositionally and aesthetically I quite like your photos. Most of them don't move me much beyond that.

    Perhaps you should be more concerned with what you want to say than how to say it.
    That's something serious to think about, even though I am not sure what you really mean as I rarely have to say anything beyond the photograph itself.
    aristotelis grammatikakis
    www.arigram.gr
    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  6. #26
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by middy View Post
    Ari, compositionally and aesthetically I quite like your photos. Most of them don't move me much beyond that.
    Perhaps you should be more concerned with what you want to say than how to say it.
    Naturally, we all must be concerned with *everything* moving middy.

    Brings to mind the line from Rickie Nelson's "Garden Party":

    "You can't please everyone - So you've got to please yourself."
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    There is a variation on this story involving Schoenberg. Gershwin asked Schoenberg to take him as a student and Schoenberg said something like "I'd only make you a second-rate Schoenberg, but you are a good Gershwin already."

    I don't know why Gershwin would have asked Ravel for help, the contrary is more likely. Ravel's final piano concerto was written heavily under the influence of Gershwin. Gershwin pulled a number of people through into jazzy/bluesy American influenced post-classical music, including even Rachmaninoff.
    I do not remember who made that film. May be the script writer thought, most of the audience will know who Ravel is but who is Schoenberg?

    Ulrich

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by arigram View Post
    That's something serious to think about, even though I am not sure what you really mean as I rarely have to say anything beyond the photograph itself.
    That's OK. I'm not really sure what I mean either.

  9. #29
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arigram View Post
    ...I rarely have to say anything beyond the photograph itself.
    But you are already saying some thing(s) with your photographs. Even if you attempt to be a passive, purely observational photographer. Right?

    Let me try to be more concrete.

    In your photographs Venice I and II, I see a thematic emphasis on an architectural bow(?) structure that to me quite strongly evokes the Viking ships, and that adventurous spirit. Those bows present a scythe-like fierceness/bravery to the sea, which even now in Venice is sometimes a thing to be feared.

    We could ask what other 'takes" on those boats you could have done. You could have explored the relationship of people to the boats; you could have focused on the passengers or the oarsman/punter(?); you could have focused on the waterways or the waves or..... But instead you focused on this rather architectural detail on the bow. By targeting that aspect in your composition, you do say something about what you felt important in the scene.

    Two lovely and evocative photographs, I'd say. You are saying something with them. Do you recognize what it is?
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  10. #30
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    My first piece of advice is to look beyond the photography and take some art classes or get some good books to read on lighting and the effects of light on the subject. If you have ever studied the great masters of painting you will have seen some of what I'm referring to. After all the image is light and shadow mixed with the cultural and emotional responses to the subject. If you know what you want to shoot you need to know how to bring out the image in a meaningful way.
    I found a book at the local library once called something like "Twice Reflected Light" or something along those lines and it was a revelation in how the light and it's environment affects each other. I haven't been able to find it again, I'd love to have a copy as a permanent addition to my library.
    Once you know the light you may find you are getting what you want or will know more of what you want to do with your photography.
    Good Luck!
    Gary Beasley

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