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  1. #11
    Film Dude's Avatar
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    Rude! It is expensive being a photographer!

  2. #12
    SuzanneR's Avatar
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    I think some form of payment should be offered, unless, of course, they are planning on giving the books away.

  3. #13
    Dan Henderson's Avatar
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    I helped a writer who was doing a history book on our fire department by photographing several old firefighting tools and designing and creating the cover. I was "paid" the sum of $1.00, was given credit in the book, and received a complementary copy. He was self-publishing the book, and so did not have the money to pay a "professional," so I did (and do not) feel that I robbed anyone of work. I was, and am, pleased to be able to say that my work is in a published book.

    As far as the reply, that was not snarky, it was just Vinny.


    web site: Dan Henderson, Photographer.com

    blog: https://danhendersonphotographer.wordpress.com/

    I am not anti-digital. I am pro-film.

  4. #14
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuzanneR View Post
    I think some form of payment should be offered, unless, of course, they are planning on giving the books away.
    But they are offering a form of payment, aren't they?

    It's just not in the form of money. It's a photo credit. Which perhaps could, in sufficient aggregate quantity, be eventually transformed into money down the road. Not all types of compensation take the form of money. At least not immediately. Value can be transferred in many ways.

    Now whether the value offered is sufficient to cover the deliverable is another story, and can only be ascertained by each individual considering the offer.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  5. #15
    jamesgignac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Nadvornick View Post
    But they are offering a form of payment, aren't they?

    It's just not in the form of money. It's a photo credit. Which perhaps could, in sufficient aggregate quantity, be eventually transformed into money down the road. Not all types of compensation take the form of money. At least not immediately. Value can be transferred in many ways.
    Ken, this is not always the best argument to make especially when dealing with publishing. I personally don't like the idea of contributors receiving nothing in order to have their name in a book and like it or not but we live in a currency-based economy and not some sort of photographer's / publisher's co-operative where we all play our roles for free. Were we to all live on a commune together this might be a different story.

    I understand the people who believe that payment should be made and not just credit given - it is very seldom that a person will receive a great deal of future business for having a photo on the cover of a small publication. Stating that a person's payment is in fact letting the publisher use their photo is not payment at all so I think that this was simply a poor choice of words or perhaps poorly interpreted. "Here's my photo for you to use" -"Thank you, your payment is that I'm using your photo"; and crediting the photographer is simply something that should be done always.

    That being said I too don't see a problem with the idea of having a call for submissions and stating that there is no pay but that the photographer will receive a copy of the book and full credit for the submitted photograph.

    Wildbill: if I had something to offer you could certainly have it! Best of luck with the rest of the process.
    -dereck|james|gignac
    dereckjamesgignac.com

  6. #16
    Ken Nadvornick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamesgignac View Post
    I personally don't like the idea of contributors receiving nothing in order to have their name in a book...
    The issue is not what you are saying. I mostly agree. It's the scope over which you attempt to apply it. Any further than your own personal domain and it becomes an attempt to dictate the actions of others, who may or may not share your point of view.

    I was looking over the help wanted ads for software engineers recently. One particularly caught my eye. It was a startup advertising the availability of jobs, but with a catch. The jobs were non-compensation. You were expected to work for free. Presumably for the same sort of "credit" factor as the book cover photo job offer.

    Now I personally don't like the idea of software developers receiving nothing in order to just receive a resume credit. I feel it cheapens the value of the work that I do, and potentially drags down future compensation levels for everyone in this field.

    However, I also recognize that not everyone else in the field necessarily sees things as I do.

    For example, given the state of the economy I could understand a newly minted computer science graduate deciding that the resume experience garnered by working non-comp right now might be better than having to later explain not working at all. And after the economy improves that the resume entry itself might later translate into greater compensation over someone who had lesser overall experience.

    Ultimately, offering a low- or non-compensation job will, like everything else, seek and find its own level of credibility in the marketplace. If the job has no value whatsoever, then no one will take it. But if it has at least some value to at least one person, then the "eBay effect" will apply. An item is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it at that moment.

    As I said, value can be pulled from a transaction in many different ways. My pure speculation is that someone somewhere will take the book cover photo job as offered, if they have not already.

    And I cannot pass judgment on that person's motives in doing so, as I will not have walked a mile in that person's shoes.

    Ken
    "They are the proof that something was there and no longer is. Like a stain. And the stillness of them is boggling. You can turn away but when you come back they’ll still be there looking at you."

    — Diane Arbus, March 15, 1971, in response to a request for a brief statement about photographs

  7. #17
    PLynch's Avatar
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    Ahhhhh free photos. After all it's easy right? Yet the requesters for free photos can't go out and make their own. I work in Government where I often have to give photos to people outside my agency to use. Often they very enthusiastically ask how I would like my photo credit to appear. Enthusiastically they ask because after all they are doing me a great service by getting me published and it is within their power to add my name.

    My response. Please don't put a credit at all.
    WHAT! WHY NOT? they ask in shock as their benevolent act is rejected.

    My Response. I don't wish to attract more people looking for free photography.
    PLynch
    on facebook at Pinhole Prints
    Home page at Pinhole Prints

  8. #18
    CGW
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    "Payment will be photo credit given inside the book, along with 2 contributor copies..."

    Anybody have any recipes for photo credit and contributor copies? Just asking.

  9. #19
    Domenico Foschi's Avatar
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    I have offered one of my images because the man and his wife, and I can only say that they are just great people who are trying to keep a passion alive.
    I know how hard it is to keep doing what you like because of financial restrictions, and knowing this great couple it is only an honor to enable them to do so. I understand the resistance, but as I said, I know them, and I can only say good things about them.
    For prints sales, workshops and individual lessons,
    please, check my website



    My APUG Portfolio
    http://www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=196<p>

  10. #20
    benjiboy's Avatar
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    The ultimate put down is if you offer you're work for free, and they reject it.
    Ben

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