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  1. #21
    chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
    Thanks guys. I didn't realize that all the forum members were pros who only shoot for cash. None of the contributors (writers and artists) have asked for money as of yet, even the well known ones. If you'd like to be a part of it, do so. Otherwise, stick to all the other paid book cover deals you have lined up.
    I support myself and my son entirely from sales of my work, much of it to businesses who license the work to illustrate advertisements, books, magazines, etc. I get paid every time, no exceptions. The stone cold fact is, I cannot tell my son that I got paid 'photo credit' because he needs to eat. Three times a day, every day, no exceptions, ever. Same with me.

    As another person said, your reply to us was snarky. Many of us here are fulltime professional artists and many others are commercial photographers. Those of us who are have plenty of paid work and paid usages of our photos.

    I encourage anyone who is asked for photos for something like this to demand fair payment. Even if you have a 'real job' that isn't connected to photography, you could certainly use the money to buy more gear or to do something nice for your family. The last book cover I did brought me enough money to pay my rent, utility bills, food, gas, and other expenses for a month. For one photo, a month's income. Think about that before you give someone like the OP, who does not respect your work enough to pay for it, a free picture.
    Chris Crawford
    Fine Art Photography of Indiana and other places no one else photographs.

    http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

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    Fort Wayne, Indiana

  2. #22
    Domenico Foschi's Avatar
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    I believe it is good practice to do "pro bono" work once in a while. I have been given more than one break in my career.
    I make a point to donate a certain amount of prints for non profit organizations fund raisers, and give a percentage to charities from some print sales every year, even though things are tough. I see it a a defying action against bad situations and it helps people. Is it scary? Oh yes, especially lately, but it is good practice to let go of that fear.
    For prints sales, workshops and individual lessons,
    please, check my website



    My APUG Portfolio
    http://www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=196<p>

  3. #23
    Domenico Foschi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by benjiboy View Post
    The ultimate put down is if you offer you're work for free, and they reject it.
    Actually, my image wasn't approved by the panel, and it wasn't a big let down.
    I saw it more as a missed opportunity to help two friends.
    For prints sales, workshops and individual lessons,
    please, check my website



    My APUG Portfolio
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  4. #24
    chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domenico Foschi View Post
    I believe it is good practice to do "pro bono" work once in a while. I have been given more than one break in my career.
    I make a point to donate a certain amount of prints for non profit organizations fund raisers, and give a percentage to charities from some print sales every year, even though things are tough. I see it a a defying action against bad situations and it helps people. Is it scary? Oh yes, especially lately, but it is good practice to let go of that fear.
    Giving pics to a charity you support is a hell of a lot different than giving something to a business. These people asking for pics are a business. If they cannot afford to pay their bills (and yes paying writes and photographers is a normal part of doing business as a publisher), then they need to evaluate whether they have the ability to keep the business going. Businesses are, not, and I repeat, NOT charities. They need to do what all of us did when we started our businesses: Save money, get business loans, find investors to back you, etc. Asking working people to work for free so they can have a business is arrogant and repugnant. No one has a right to be in business; an undercapitalized business fails in a free market economy, as well it should.
    Chris Crawford
    Fine Art Photography of Indiana and other places no one else photographs.

    http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

    My Tested Developing Times with the films and developers I use

    Become a fan of my work on Facebook

    Fort Wayne, Indiana

  5. #25
    Domenico Foschi's Avatar
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    Did you read the word "pro bono" somewhere" in my post?
    That is normal practice too. I am the first to say that I am not a good business man, but I do believe that my talent is not exclusively for sale. If I can help, even in hard times, a business that I think is important and is in bad water. Why not?
    For prints sales, workshops and individual lessons,
    please, check my website



    My APUG Portfolio
    http://www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=196<p>

  6. #26
    Colin Corneau's Avatar
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    Domenico, what you are talking about is supporting a charity through your work...this is admirable and just. I do it myself regularly.

    A business, however, is not a charity. That is all that Chris is suggesting, and I think it's fair.
    "Never criticize someone until you've walked a mile in their shoes. That way, you're a mile away and you've got their shoes."

    MY BLOG - www.reservedatalltimes.com
    YOU SHOULD LOOK AT THIS SITE - www.colincorneau.com
    INSTAGRAM: colincorneau

  7. #27

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    i'm with you domenico ...

    i wish i had something suitable to submit.
    the folks that put out the igNobel awards every year
    used to get a bunch of us to work with them
    for a bi-line and copies of the publication ..
    i don't see anything wrong with helping out friends ...

  8. #28
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscrawfordphoto View Post
    Giving pics to a charity you support is a hell of a lot different than giving something to a business. These people asking for pics are a business. If they cannot afford to pay their bills (and yes paying writes and photographers is a normal part of doing business as a publisher), then they need to evaluate whether they have the ability to keep the business going. Businesses are, not, and I repeat, NOT charities. They need to do what all of us did when we started our businesses: Save money, get business loans, find investors to back you, etc. Asking working people to work for free so they can have a business is arrogant and repugnant. No one has a right to be in business; an undercapitalized business fails in a free market economy, as well it should.
    I don't totally disagree with Chris, but I also think that there are lots of entities out there that benefit the community without being charities.

    Publishing is done for profit, and it is done for the love of the material being published, and it is done for a mixture of the two. From my point of view, if a publication clearly is at least part a "labour of love" then I would be willing to consider making contributions to it without hope of financial rewards. I would expect, however, that:

    1) it would be clear that there were others, including the principals of the operation, who were making similar contributions; and
    2) the decision to make such a contribution is one to be made by me, voluntarily and in advance - people who don't pay bills they have previously agreed to pay do not attract any sympathy from me.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #29
    wildbill's Avatar
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    I'm not sure how photographers are so different from writers but not one writer out of the hundreds who have submitted for their previous publications has been paid, asked for compensation, or complained in any way. If/ when in the future the press makes a profit and can pay the cover artist, I don't think I'll mention it here.

    Do those of you who do not pay to subscibe to this forum feel that Sean (apug owner/operator) doesn't need to be comensated for his time/efforts? He can work for free but you wouldn't dream of it?

    In case you missed it:

    Quote Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
    My wife, Stacy, is doing the design work for a small publishing company that is currently seeking images. I figure there's got to be someone here interested in getting their work on the cover.


    Call for submissions:

    Fast Forward Press is currently seeking photographs for the cover of our upcoming flash novel "Emily Avenue." We are accepting color and b&w photographs containing a neon café sign of some sort (sign does not have to say café on it), preferably at night. The submission should be a low-quality file (72dpi, maximum width of 650 pixels), but if selected original work must be available at 300dpi in at least a 5"x7" size. Also, please note that the photograph may be cropped to fit cover dimensions.

    Payment will be photo credit given inside the book, along with 2 contributor copies. Please see our website (http://fastforwardpress.org/) for our current volumes and information about our press.

    Send submissions to: ffpressblog@gmail.com
    Deadline: September 20th, 2010
    Last edited by wildbill; 12-16-2010 at 09:13 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    www.vinnywalsh.com

    I know what I want but I just don't know how to go about gettin' it.-Hendrix

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by wildbill View Post
    I'm not sure how photographers are so different from writers but not one writer out of the hundreds who have submitted for their previous publications has been paid, asked for compensation, or complained in any way.
    Somehow this doesn't surprise me. When I was editing a little literary magazine, I'd get 20-30 manuscripts a day in my mail box. There was very little money or fame in it for anyone (in fact, it cost me a lot to keep it going, which is why I don't do it any more) but there are a lot of people out there who want to be published, no matter what. I'm quite familiar with the economics and social dynamics of small-press publishing. But I still think that publication just for credit is one step from vanity publishing.

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