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"I admit I am a hard sell, I can see and smell the BS thousands of miles away. The business environment today can't succeed for very long without honesty. If something can't be done it would be in the best interest for the company to explain in clear and honest words why."
Curt, Simon is the only representative of a "world class company" who has taken an active interest in our needs. Postcard stock was no longer in the line-up after Ilford came out of their gut-wrenching reorganizarion, and it was brought back "on spec" due in part to the members of this forum. If you will take the time to look at his most recent post, his candor is remarkable. I see the tone of your post as a somewhat negative take on things, and perhaps in your comment about bs, the fox is smelling his own hole, no?
I greatly appreciate the work Ilford has done in keeping film alive. Their interest in ULF is a gamble, at best, and is just another indicator of film's viability in the digital world. I wouldn't blame Ilford for the demise of film. If anything, it is the human need for immediate gratification which has caused this shift in market place. tim
...on ULF, ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology will do what it always does, listen to its customers and find a solution, which I will post in due course, I have to speak to people internally and in the US.
As to PAN F+ emulsion in sheet film...I will explain, once again...
First, thank you for seeking a solution and posting when it's found. Past behavior is usually a good indicator of future actions; I think we can therefore count on you to follow up.
Concerning PAN F+ emulsion in sheet film, please don't explain ever again. Even if you feel compelled to respond to future repetitious requests, a simple link to this thread will be more than deserved. Please don't waste any more of your time typing the same things over and over.
Actually the extra month is great for me. I'm not yet involved in the ULF format but just trying to figure out what size of camera so this gives me a little time to "get my ducks in order" for the camera and still get on the list for the film.
I am a little discouraged that this Ilford special order may not be every year, but now every two years. What will someone new to this area do?
How much ULF film do most of you expose every year?
Thanks for all the feedback on ULF, ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology will do what it always does, listen to its customers and find a solution, which I will post in due course, I have to speak to people internally and in the US.
As to PAN F+ emulsion in sheet film, yes people are passionate about it, we would like to have it in the range and make it.... but it really is a bridge too far : Why, I will explain, once again :
1) Our sheet films are coated on a different base
2) R&D for transfer of a PAN F+ film emulsion to that base
3) Test coatings on a pilot coater
4) Manufacturing test coatings
5) Actual coating ( approx minimum 5,000 sq mtrs, minimum emulsion mix )
6) Testing
7) QC pass / fail ( if it fails its destroyed )
8) Finishing to sheet
9) Technical service : Evaluation Processing and sensitometric testing
10 ) Sales and marketing costs / translations etc
11) Cost of stockholding x 24 months
Forecasted sales ( Worldwide ) per annum all sheet film sizes between 1,000 and 1,250 sq metres ( approx 3,100 to 3,875 packets of 5" x 4" in 25 sheets ).
Within our quality regimes we could finish safely twice at a years interval from one coating, therefore we would use maximum 2,500sq metres.
Other 2,500 sq metres would be DESTROYED ( but silver recovered )
Additional cost of cold / controlled storage of parent roll
I have worked out the approx retail cost ( + or - 10% ) of 25 sheets of 5" x 4excluding any local taxes so that we would recover our total spend ( but make no profit whatsoever) in 2 years from the date of shipping the first order :
$ 113.07 per 25 sheets of 5 x 4
__________________________
This is why we do not, and will never make PAN F + in sheet film : No one would buy it at that price.....whether they loved it or not
I hope that explains the situation :
With Kind Regards
Simon. ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
And after Simon and his company accomplished all that he has outlined above, everybody would let him down with crappy order quantities like this ULF order. Face it, this community is not going to keep any companies alive with B&W film purchases, that is why Kodak, who needs to make BIGGER runs, has their attitude towards film..Evan Clarke
I am a little discouraged that this Ilford special order may not be every year, but now every two years. What will someone new to this area do?
How much ULF film do most of you expose every year?
Bill
I have barely made it through a box, but am partially hedging my bets on future availability and partially trying to motivate myself to go out and burn more sheets.
Personally, I'd buy another box, and maybe sell it during the year at a loss to someone new to ULF, to make sure that I and others have access to the product.
Sorry, but when it comes to Ilford you go off on absurd flights of fancy.
Example? You want 5x7 film and you complain that Ilford is ignoring the 5x7 user. You are then told that you can buy it off the shelf in three different emulsions. So, you change tack and insist on an emulsion (Pan-F) that you know is not coated on to sheets. Then, being told it can't be done for technical/financial reasons, you now say you don't care about them producing it after all (!) - now you want them to create an entirely new low-speed emulsion especially for the purpose (at a cost of hundreds of thousands of pounds/dollars/euro/whatever). It is clear that whatever they do will not satisfy you, hence my gold-bar joke-ette...
Your other contributions are entirely normal: it's just Ilford where you seem to have a strange need to slag them off at every opportunity and write long monomaniacal monologues about their perceived failings.
Please do not put words in to my mouth: you will search high and low without success looking for me saying that Ilford "cares". What it cares about is making sufficient profit to still be in business this time next year and the years beyond. Making films and paper that only a handful of people want to buy is not a valid business model. That Ilford succeed is in all our interests (ditto the film parts of Kodak and FujiFilm). Welcome to the wonderful world of capitalism.
Actually the extra month is great for me. I'm not yet involved in the ULF format but just trying to figure out what size of camera so this gives me a little time to "get my ducks in order" for the camera and still get on the list for the film.
I am a little discouraged that this Ilford special order may not be every year, but now every two years. What will someone new to this area do?
How much ULF film do most of you expose every year?
Bill
I shot 50-60 sheets of 5x12 (a combination of FP4/HP5) last year, but I didn't start shooting that format until June/July. The scary thing is that I have this stuff graphed out in Excel at home.
I don't know how many sheets can I shot in 8x20, I think when I'll be ready I can shoot 50-100 sheets in this format.
I think also that this special order should be done every one and half/two years.
Best
Stefano
Linear Mode
