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  1. #51
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    or have the distributor and retailers, order and keep a supply in stock. Money up front of course insures the present today need and posts no risk for the chosen distributor or retailer-inventory totally purchased before order and not shelved........A supplier ,having product at the ready for order, encourages one to shoot more and maybe not get in the hoarding-preservation mind set. It would be great if the retailers would step up and fill the order keeping the supply on hand.

    Demand inventory works well if product can be delivered in a short time, i.e. a week.

    Being able to get a box of film at a time-I could easily shoot 10 boxes in a 12 month period....paying as I go.....purchasing $3,000.00 in a one pay up front, forces me to use sparingly the few boxes I can afford to buy on the annual order...I know some photographers were able to purchase thousands of dollars worth of film on the first order...possibly they helped fill the initial order and still have a freezer full of film? Don t know..
    does this make sense to anyone else?
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  2. #52
    Rick Olson's Avatar
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    I ordered two boxes of 7 x 17 Ilford FP-4 film during this run to participate and help the cause. Not a lot you say? Well ... I don't even own a 7 x 17 camera (yet). This is my goal and important enough for me to make this contribution, both to support Ilford's effort with the ULF community and to assist in mine. Everytime I open my freezer, I see those two big white boxes sitting there waiting for me. The anticipation of bigger and better things to come keeps me thinking positive.

    THANKS SIMON AND ILFORD!!

    Rick

  3. #53

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    I really find it hard to blame the dealers or to ask them to stock ULF film on the hope that someone will purchase it prior to it expiring. Here in Richmond VA (population > 1 million) the dealers don't even stock 4x5 film. How can we expect them to stock various sizes of ULF?

  4. #54
    Curt's Avatar
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    I was going to reply to Bob but you just aren't worth the effort. I said in an earlier threat that I was using Ilford 120 Pan F and found it to be superior to what I was using. I found out that Ilford because of financial and motivational reasons won't push for a quality slow speed film in any sheet size. So be it. I will continue to use Adox/Efke and will support those retailers who sell it. I will say that I will continue to use Ilford 120 but that's it. The paper is too expensive and not that impressive. In my opinion Ilford is not that rounded. They could be a complete source for film, paper and chemicals but they will not, by their own words. In a way that's good because the competition for other manufactures to continue in the market place is going to stronger than ever. Ilford will never be a whole company like Kodak was. It will be a vanity company producing only a few parts of the entire picture.
    Everytime I find a film or paper that I like, they discontinue it. - Paul Strand - Aperture monograph on Strand

  5. #55
    Dave Wooten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jgjbowen View Post
    I really find it hard to blame the dealers or to ask them to stock ULF film on the hope that someone will purchase it prior to it expiring. Here in Richmond VA (population > 1 million) the dealers don't even stock 4x5 film. How can we expect them to stock various sizes of ULF?
    True they don t stock it, but if they did I would purchase it. What I am getting at is if it is available more possibly would be used. It is easier for me financially, to purchase and use film on a monthly basis than it is to pay up front for annual supply....this greatly inhibits the amount of film I can purchase and use.
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  6. #56

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    Dave,

    Hopefully J&C will stock some Ilford ULF in various sizes.

  7. #57
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Curt View Post
    I was going to reply to Bob but you just aren't worth the effort. I said in an earlier threat that I was using Ilford 120 Pan F and found it to be superior to what I was using. I found out that Ilford because of financial and motivational reasons won't push for a quality slow speed film in any sheet size. So be it. ...
    This is getting tiresome.

    Pan F+ will not be produced in sheets because the emulsion is incompatible with the sheet film substrate. If they were to make a 50 ISO sheet film, it would have to be a completely different emulsion, so it wouldn't be Pan F+.

    There's nothing "financial" or "motivational" about that.

    Besides, they are testing a brand new ISO 25 emulsion which will also come in sheet sizes. Of course that won't be Pan F+, for reasons explained several dozen times.

    BTW: That's an interesting misspelling you have there - Freudian slip?
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  8. #58
    Curt's Avatar
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    I found out that Ilford because of financial and motivational reasons won't push for a quality slow speed film in any sheet size.
    For the last time; A SLOW SPEED FILM

    Dear All,

    Thanks for all the feedback on ULF, ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology will do what it always does, listen to its customers and find a solution, which I will post in due course, I have to speak to people internally and in the US.

    As to PAN F+ emulsion in sheet film, yes people are passionate about it, we would like to have it in the range and make it.... but it really is a bridge too far : Why, I will explain, once again :

    1) Our sheet films are coated on a different base
    2) R&D for transfer of a PAN F+ film emulsion to that base
    3) Test coatings on a pilot coater
    4) Manufacturing test coatings
    5) Actual coating ( approx minimum 5,000 sq mtrs, minimum emulsion mix )
    6) Testing
    7) QC pass / fail ( if it fails its destroyed )
    8) Finishing to sheet
    9) Technical service : Evaluation Processing and sensitometric testing
    10 ) Sales and marketing costs / translations etc
    11) Cost of stockholding x 24 months

    Forecasted sales ( Worldwide ) per annum all sheet film sizes between 1,000 and 1,250 sq metres ( approx 3,100 to 3,875 packets of 5" x 4" in 25 sheets ).

    Within our quality regimes we could finish safely twice at a years interval from one coating, therefore we would use maximum 2,500sq metres.

    Other 2,500 sq metres would be DESTROYED ( but silver recovered )

    Additional cost of cold / controlled storage of parent roll


    I have worked out the approx retail cost ( + or - 10% ) of 25 sheets of 5" x 4excluding any local taxes so that we would recover our total spend ( but make no profit whatsoever) in 2 years from the date of shipping the first order :

    $ 113.07 per 25 sheets of 5 x
    I don't give a hoot about Pan F, what I was and have been requesting is a slow speed film in sheet film, 2x3 4x5 and 5x7.
    What I have been hearing is that Ilford isn't interested in a slow speed film. Now Ole comes up with a 25 speed film that Ilford supposedly has in the works, with all respect, why didn't Simon mention it in his long, why we won't/can't make a Pan F like film on sheet, thread.

    I can't believe that a slow speed sheet film of 25 ISO is in the works and Simon couldn't connect that with what I was saying.

    It could have gone, if Ole is correct, "We can't put Pan F on sheet film because... what he said in his comment... BUT, we have an ISO 25 speed film that will be on sheet film in all sizes comming out soon."

    It looks like there is a real lack of imagination out there. You know connect the dots?

    Simon: is there a slow speed sheet film in all sizes less than 8x10 including metric sizes with a speed of ISO 25 in the works or in conception or in production?

    That's a simple statement have some fun with it.

    Curt
    Last edited by Curt; 03-21-2007 at 12:55 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: Was not finished
    Everytime I find a film or paper that I like, they discontinue it. - Paul Strand - Aperture monograph on Strand

  9. #59

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    Dear Curt,

    Yes we have been looking at a 25 asa film based on DELTA controlled crystal growth technology, is it a full project yet ?: No , would it go to sheet film ? : No idea. We have received feedback from Apuggers on lots of product ideas ( and from our website ), I am hoping to post in the next couple of weeks an update from our marketing director.

    As to your comments re our business being a 'vanity' business, and not "wholly rounded as KODAK once was" , you are absolutely entitled to your opinion, and I respect that, and your right to express it, but I maintain that some of the most memorable and important images, even World changing images.. ever made, have been made on ILFORD Film and printed on ILFORD paper, which is why it is a huge source of pride ( not vanity ) that I work for and passionately believe in this company and the products it makes.....

    As to the comment re KODAK, I agree, fabulous products, fabulous history, great and innovative people, anyone who has read my posts will see that I value the choice and variety available from all manufacturers, not just my own...why... because this is what will ensure silver based photography expands and touches new exponents of the art and will bring us more advocats in the future.....

    Speech over...I feel better

    Regards

    Simon ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited :

  10. #60
    juan's Avatar
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    FP4 in 2 1/4 x 3 1/4 sheets would be slow enough for me.
    juan



 

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