Perhaps you're the one in the weird getup
Originally Posted by Tom1956
No insult taken - I just disagree with the assessment that they'd want to look like Wally and Beav but they're pressured into looking "weird". They look exactly how they want to look - nobody is holding a gun to their head to say "you've got to wear black eyeliner or else". I went to an all-guys prep school in the 1980s - then, and still today, the school had a dress code that required khakis or other dress slacks, shirt and tie, and a jacket. There were some kids who embraced it, some who tolerated it, and some who did their level best to rebel against it. This was at the height of the punk/new-wave era, when in certain circles guys were encouraged to get mohawks, dye their hair, get multiple earrings, and wear makeup. Needless to say, at an all boys prep school, that kind of stuff was not tolerated by the administration - so folks who did stuff like get wild hairdos or push the limits of the dress code did so of their own free will, and at some personal risk from not just the administration but from the other kids as well. I remember one (white) kid decided he was going to grow dreadlocks. He got away with it for about a month, then when it became obvious, he was sent home with a note requiring him to get a haircut before returning to campus. Back in the day, however, the previous headmaster was known to actually forcibly cut hair that had grown too long (that was in the 1960s and 70s when teachers could get away with that kind of thing).
Originally Posted by Tom1956
First of all, nice picture.
Second, he looks normal to me, and I was never in his particular sub-culture. I don't see what all the fuss is about your son's appearance. I've always looked like I'm into metol, err... metal. In high school I had a friend that was punk. This thread reminds me a lot of people's comments about us in general, and how they'd question how we could even be friends. We constantly had to explain (back in high school) that friendship has nothing to do with how we looked or the interests we did not share.
During grad school I took a close friend from Japan to the Milan Melon Festival in Ohio. We saw some Goths there, and she'd not seen one in "real life." She was a bit taken aback, so I asked if she wanted to talk to them. Though I often start up conversations with strangers, she was surprised I suggested we do so with Goths. I had to tell her they were normal people, just like us - they merely looked different. She declined, but she did get the message.
I try to not mention my age (or other identifying features) online (mostly for fun), but lets just say I'm over 25. Not only do I not regret my "modifications" or "fashion statements," I still pretty much look the same as I did at his age. No, I did not, and still do not, look superficially "conventional." A big part of this is my parents and grandparents were very accepting of these sorts of things. They were more concerned with character, and they raised me well in this respect. That is not to say they didn't rag on me about it (in a joking manner, not mean or unaccepting). Like when my father and one of my friends in my undergrad walked behind me in a store, enjoying the reactions people had (I had some unnatural colored streaks in my hair at the time, among other things).
Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera
Of course, I did have to make concessions when entering the workforce. However, looking at me now, and pictures of me then, I mostly look the same; and am into the same various subcultures. You wouldn't really say much has changed, and would probably agree I still don't "fit-in." I don't feel that way, but I'm obviously biased. As a matter of fact, my best friend looked at old photos, and she noticed how my brother looked different through the years, always being trendy, while I have been relatively static in appearance (though convention now mandates I not be quite so extreme).
I mostly agree with you on this - more-or-less a +1. However, my thoughts on this subject come from my memories of being in these positions, and how my parents and grandparents handled it. I am childless, though I was once a child. (I also once worked in a school for teens with behavioral problems.)
Originally Posted by Sirius Glass
Why would you think they would truly rather look like that? Seriously, why? That argument does not even agree with itself - if someone thought looking like the Donna Reed Show would make them look odd, then by this reasoning looking like anything would also make them look odd, as there are so many different ways to look. Regardless of one's reasons for looking any particular way, regardless of whether those reasons are deemed "good" or "bad," fitting into one group means you may look odd to the other groups. Some times a "get-up" is because they like the aesthetics (as as some prefer traditional grain versus t-grain films). Other times it is part of being in an "affinity group" or sub-culture. There are many other reasons, maybe even a reason similar to your theory - though the brush is not nearly that broad.
Originally Posted by Tom1956
I don't know what you look like, but would never assume that deep in your heart you would want to look like me. Nor would I rationalize in my own mind that you looked different from me only for a reason that I would consider "acceptable" in my own mind. As a matter of fact, as long as you don't look like the the epitome of something (in other words, an exact and pretentious embodiment of some stereotype), I'd likely not notice how you looked at all; instead noticing how you thought and who you were as a person. Perhaps this is because of how I was raised, or perhaps it is because I've been on the receiving end of this sort of thinking my entire life.
I was what many considered in a "weird get-up" in my teens and twenties. Many of my friends were too, though different "get-ups." Most of us still are. We never had any desire to be other than what we were, or look other than how we looked. We never felt like we "had" to fit into any group. When we met someone who was into our sub-groups/subcultures, and they asked how they had to act/behave/look/etc. to fit in, we told them there was no true prerequisite other than treating people well and not being an ass.
Originally Posted by lxdude
Last edited by Truzi; 03-16-2014 at 07:05 AM. Click to view previous post history.
norm123 - Introduce the lad to Kai, last of the Brunnen-G.... But tell him to stay away from Zev Bellringer
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Originally Posted by paul_c5x4
Great portrait! Spending time with friends/family doing art is fun times! To share that art is to love! /*infinite loop*/ /*recursive*/
Originally Posted by norm123
Glad to have ya, will have to swing into the gallery to give a look see!
"The Science of Older and Wiser"
Wise people are able to accept reality as it is, with equanimity
I am no emo or punk (though I play and listened to a lot of that stuff. Okay, okay - I wore a lot of band shirts in my teens and still do sometimes, though only classic rock stuff) but those chicks are mystifying to fool around with. Early 90's grunge had it's revival back in high school (2009)!
Originally Posted by StoneNYC
Anyway, OP the image is really great, I bet he loves it and it will get him lots of goth girlfriends (and I was once goth, and the girls are... Fun... So watch out!). But yea I never confused Nirvana with being goth...
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My Gothic Son
I don't care how old you are, I just want to know if you're a boy or girl... Haha
Originally Posted by Truzi
You're younger than me, but not by much
Good insights, I agree.