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  1. #11
    keithwms's Avatar
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    A basic issue is that the colour temp in the shade is different from that in the sun. If you have a mix, you are not going to solve that problem with any filter. It will shift both. The best slide film for mixed light, hands down, is astia. Hear me now, believe me later.

    Other than that, you shoot one of the 160 or 400 speed print films.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  2. #12

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    That goes without saying, Keith. When you have two color temperatures of light in the shot, you balance to one or the other, or something in between. It's your choice, but you obviously cannot balance both to match each other without using special black magic.

    IMO, filtering for the shade is the most aesthetically pleasing option in most cases, but that is up to the shooter. No biggie if the daylit areas go warm...in fact, it might be very nice.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

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  3. #13

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    Shoot Velvia!

    Going back a few years when I used to shoot color transparency all the time we found that Kodak films tended to be blue whilst Fuji tended to be warmer.

    It may be counterintuitive but when things got a bit overcast we would always turn to Velvia as it really warmed/punched the colours up - to the extent that we would end up shooting sports on 400mm lenses at 1/60 or 1/125 sec, loads of waste but great colours and no blue faces!

    Ooooh, have you thought of a UV filter as that can cut out some of the reflected blue comng from the sky when its overcast. Otherwise 81A, B or C is the way to go or gold colored reflectors.

  4. #14
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2F/2F View Post
    That goes without saying, Keith.
    Well then I apologize for saying it

    The thing is, direct sun portraiture is rarely attractive even with print film; with slide, yikes.

    Maybe that also goes without saying.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  5. #15

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    No need to apologize, Keith! I am just sayin'....

    As for your other statement, I think if the goal is only to make an attractive picture of a person, then it is glamor, not portrait photography.

    If the goal is really portraiture, i.e. to make a picture about a person, then any sort of light which allows you to say that which you want to say is the light to use.

    Portraiture is not simply photography in which a person is the main subject.
    Last edited by 2F/2F; 04-29-2010 at 05:30 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  6. #16
    keithwms's Avatar
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    I certainly agree, for environmental portraiture (usually the most effective in my opinion), there are many successful approaches. Hell, I have seen EIR portraits that were hauntingly beautiful, and I've seen some x-processed portraits that were also quite amazing. But my comments were directed more toward the O.P.s issues.

    Human skin tones are an tricky issue in any light; I am just saying that astia has been the only slide film I've used that delivered the skin tones that *I* look for... even in tricky light e.g. dappled shade. In contiguous shade (cloudy overcast) then yes, sure, filter a bit to warm things up a bit if you like. But even then, astia will do the better job.

    And no, I am not an astia salesman
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

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  7. #17
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    Sorry for getting back so late! Again, thanks for all the interesting and informative replies. It goes without saying that one can only reasonably balance one color temperature at a time and that sceneries with sunlit areas and shade have at least two distinct color casts. Still, the area where color casts seem to have the worst effect are skin colors, where a blueish cast can ruin the whole shot for me (unlike I want a sad and dramatic look like in the image of my crying daughter in the theater).

    The reason why simple filtering of the developed slide doesn't help is the small latitude and the saturation characteristics of slide film. While the medium tones clearly exhibit the blue color cast, the bright tones show it to a much lesser extent, since the excess blue simply saturated. Skilled post production workers can surely save that frame, but that's not the point of shooting film imho. Yes, Ilfochrome is certainly a thought worth pursuing eventually, depends on whether I can locate a dark room nearby where they are at least willing to let me store the necessary chemicals.

    If an 81C filter can get me in the ball park then that's what I should probably look into rather quickly, as the weather still isn't all that sunny around here

    Allow me few more comments:
    @2F/2F: My shots are neither portrait, and certainly not glamour (it's my baby daughter, not some random chick showing excessive skin). They are holiday shots including the surroundings and members of my family. My ambition is to eventually achieve nice landscape shots with members of my family included as compositional elements. The reason this whole thread ended up here is because the main subject was skin color.

    @keithwms: I started shooting Astia recently, for the very reason that skin colors tend to go haywire in other films if the light is less than perfect. But I sure do like the bombastic colors that E100VS gives me in sun light and I also sure like the at least 2 extra stops Provia 400X affords me. If an 81C filter allows me to get similar results in slightly overcast weather (plus the clouds avoid the nastly shadows in the faces) I'd be happy as a clam.

    @Sim2: My problem appears in both E100VS and Provia 400X, so it doesn't seem to depend on which vendor makes the film. And it's not black magic either: in overcast weather the light has a strong blue cast which of course shows up in the resulting slide. There may be a slight difference in Kodak colors vs. Fuji colors, but it's not nearly enough to offset the blueness of that light.

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